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Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
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US Humvee w / Soviet ZSU AA gun
Neo
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 01:45 PM UTC

Don't see too many of these around.
US Humvee w / Soviet ZSU AA gun mounted in rear. Photo from Chad civil war site.



Guess you can build a model of anything and sonner or later it will be right LOL

N E O





generalzod
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 01:52 PM UTC
I bet the recoil was murder on the suspension system :-) :-)
Neo
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 02:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I bet the recoil was murder on the suspension system :-) :-)



I think only one barrel fires at a time so it would only be like a 50cal no?
generalzod
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 02:11 PM UTC
If it's a quad 12.7mm may not be too bad At first I thought that might me a quad 23mm Neat pic I wonder how they got the Hummer
Neo
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 02:44 PM UTC
II think it's the 12.7 mm but i'm not sure. The Chadians put these and also Milan AT's into alot of small 4x4's.
I have another picture of the same AA gun in a Toyota.
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 02:58 PM UTC
It is a Soviet ZPU-4 quad 14.5mm aa gun or the Chinese copy of it.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
Neo
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 03:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It is a Soviet ZPU-4 quad 14.5mm aa gun or the Chinese copy of it.

Chris "toadman" Hughes



I think your right on with that ID Chris, good call.

N E O
USArmy2534
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Posted: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 04:04 PM UTC
Cool find. I don't think that would be too hard to kit bash. Finding the ZSU might be a bit difficult, but dumping it into the back of a softskin Hummer shouldn't be too big of a job


Quoted Text

Neat pic I wonder how they got the Hummer



I would guess that this was bought from the Algerians (they received a number from the US government early in the Humvee's career) or elsewhere through the Black Market. Nowadays I wouldn't expect them to be too hard to find for that area of Africa that is the Black Market capital of the world.

Jeff
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Posted: Thursday, July 07, 2005 - 05:08 PM UTC
With four 14.5mm heavy MGs that baby will put just the very first round anywhere near the aim point. Everything else shot will end up in Kansas.

From Chad.


I once saw some footage from Lebanon of a Datsun light pick-up with a DhSk 12.7 on the back. D*mned thing heeled over about 15 degrees every time the gun fired. You could see the tracers arcing away from the original target vector immediately.

Dumber than a bag of hammers, that.

Paul
2CAVTrooper
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Posted: Monday, May 08, 2006 - 07:31 AM UTC
The recoil is why they never went with the Hummer FSV mounting the 25mm Bushmaster.........Funny thing is that the SF's have a 30mm they can mount on theirs????
troubble27
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Posted: Monday, May 08, 2006 - 08:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The recoil is why they never went with the Hummer FSV mounting the 25mm Bushmaster.........Funny thing is that the SF's have a 30mm they can mount on theirs????




Ooooh........that would be interesting! Got any pictures? This would be a good idea for someone in the upcoming Humvee campaign.
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, May 08, 2006 - 09:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The recoil is why they never went with the Hummer FSV mounting the 25mm Bushmaster.........Funny thing is that the SF's have a 30mm they can mount on theirs????




Ooooh........that would be interesting! Got any pictures? This would be a good idea for someone in the upcoming Humvee campaign.



Hobby Fan has released a conversion set for a Korean (there seems to be a typo on the box label...) Humvee fitted with a T75 20 mm gun ....


Frenchy
mikeo
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Posted: Friday, June 02, 2006 - 07:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The recoil is why they never went with the Hummer FSV mounting the 25mm Bushmaster.........Funny thing is that the SF's have a 30mm they can mount on theirs????



I could be wrong on this (but I don't think so) The 25mm Bushmaster is a higher velocity gun designed for AFV use where recoil isn't a real issue. The 30mm the SF boys mount is a derivative of the Hughes chaingun designed for helicopter mounting where recoil is a big problem. For anti-armor work, the 25mm uses sabot rounds, the 30mm (chain gun) uses HEAT rounds (implying lower velocity) I think that Hobby Fan mislabled their kit - the pictures that I saw look like the 30mm chaingun mount.
Trisaw
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Posted: Friday, June 02, 2006 - 09:31 PM UTC
I think the 25mm is burst or full-auto. A while back I had an Army captain say that he read that the 25mm Bushmaster on the Humvee shook the doors off and warped the roof pillars, meaning that the Humvee couldn't take the recoil and weight of the gun due to lack of rollbars. Notice in the AM General SF Humvee version and the R.O.C. version (very similar to SF Humvee vairant (NOT GMV "Dumvee") that it has rollbars).

The 30mm gun could be just a single-shot gun, which I believe is manually fired (even the SEAL DPV is claimed to mount a 30mm).

The Bushmaster on Humvee is remote-controlled from the interior and was meant as a shortcut to AAA defense, but it never worked because the Humvee's roof wasn't designed for the stress. As the Army wanted, the Humvee is more for a utility vehicle, not a combat car per se. The USMC wants a replacement combat car for the Humvee.
SnakeEye
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Posted: Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 03:36 AM UTC
Here is Tamiya's version.
Neo
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Posted: Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 04:05 AM UTC
Few more I had, mostly Toyota, some w/ very heavy weapon systems. These are mostly from the war in Chad.





GSPatton
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Posted: Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 06:49 AM UTC
Does anyone know of a kit for the ZSU AA gun??? I have an Italeri Hummer that would be perfect for conversion.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 07:01 AM UTC
Eastern Express does a ZSU-23-2 (twin barrel) mount as seen above (also comes in Skif and maybe ICM boxings).

One version that comes with their GAZ-66 truck.


Here's one on a UN HMMWV soemwhere in Africa. Looks pretty cool.


These AAA guns were all over Iraq. They had them mounted on MAN-style trucks too. Pretty interesting.



Quoted Text

A while back I had an Army captain say that he read that the 25mm Bushmaster on the Humvee shook the doors off and warped the roof pillars, meaning that the Humvee couldn't take the recoil and weight of the gun due to lack of rollbars.



By the way, the roof did not support any of the weight of the HMMWV-mounted 25mm Bushmaster. It was supported on an internal, turret-like structure that bolted directly to the frame. It simply stuck up through the roof. The issue was that the frame could not stand up to the punishment, fractures and cracks formed after testing. As you said though, the Army wasn't looking for a combat car, but a general carry-all type vehicle to replace the M151A2 MUTT. Due to this, the 25mm Bushmaster-armed HMMWV project was cancelled. The frame problems could have been easily rectified by adding steel strengthening beams to the frame.
Frenchy
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Posted: Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 10:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

These AAA guns were all over Iraq. They had them mounted on MAN-style trucks too. Pretty interesting.



Here's one on a Iveco truck :



Frenchy
HeavyArty
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Posted: Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 07:30 PM UTC
That is what I saw. Guess it is an Iveco truck then. I was a little too busy at the time to see what the exact make was.
mikeo
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Posted: Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 08:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think the 25mm is burst or full-auto. A while back I had an Army captain say that he read that the 25mm Bushmaster on the Humvee shook the doors off and warped the roof pillars, meaning that the Humvee couldn't take the recoil and weight of the gun due to lack of rollbars. Notice in the AM General SF Humvee version and the R.O.C. version (very similar to SF Humvee vairant (NOT GMV "Dumvee") that it has rollbars).

The 30mm gun could be just a single-shot gun, which I believe is manually fired (even the SEAL DPV is claimed to mount a 30mm).

The Bushmaster on Humvee is remote-controlled from the interior and was meant as a shortcut to AAA defense, but it never worked because the Humvee's roof wasn't designed for the stress. As the Army wanted, the Humvee is more for a utility vehicle, not a combat car per se. The USMC wants a replacement combat car for the Humvee.



The 30mm chain gun is full auto. I have seen it refered to as 30mm ASP (Automatic Self Powered) It is derived from the chin gun on the Apache. It's designers wanted a gun that could be mounted anywhere that a M2HB could be mounted.
allycat
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 02:51 AM UTC
Hi All,
Just stumbled across this thread.
Skif make (used to make?) a BTR-152E kit number 210, that had a twin 14.5mm mounted in the rear.
Tom
The_Gunner
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Posted: Friday, February 02, 2007 - 11:37 AM UTC
To hell with the recoil, or even the practicalities of keeping it on target. It would scare the P** out of me if they fired it in my general direction.

It looks damn cool! What a project and with a photo I wont be laughed out of the model club when I turn up with it.
sahariana
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Posted: Friday, February 02, 2007 - 04:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

To hell with the recoil, or even the practicalities of keeping it on target. It would scare the P** out of me if they fired it in my general direction.

It looks damn cool! What a project and with a photo I wont be laughed out of the model club when I turn up with it.



Here's the one I built for the Humvee campaign, based on the pic at the start of the thread but with the 23mm guns instead, possible maybe?



Cheers
Dus












Neo
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Posted: Friday, February 02, 2007 - 07:28 PM UTC
Dus,

Looks good. I never got far on the one I was building for the Humvee campaign.

What kits did you use for yours?

NEO