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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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Abrams smoke grenade launcher mounts, etc
GIBeregovoy
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Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,612 posts
Armorama: 449 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 12:37 AM UTC
I have built two M1A1s by Tamiya and Trumpeter, and an M1A2 by Shanghai Dragon. I notice each has a different mount for the smoke grenade launchers. Which is the more accurate mount among the three?

Another question, in both the Trumpeter M1A1 and Dragon M1A2, the blast doors (?) on the turret bustle have three round thingys (for lack of a better word) whereas the Tamiya kit has none. Which is more accurate?
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,132 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 07:10 AM UTC
Well, I will take a shot at answering your questions. The panels on the top of the turret are known as "blow off panels." They preclude a hit in the ammunition wells from going into the crew compartment. The blast door are inside the turret and activated by the loader. They preclude the explosive from going forward. So, if you take a shot in the ammo wells, the explosive force goes up and down not forward. There are (to the best of my knowledge) no bolts on the blow off panels. The smoke grenade discharges should have an inverted triangle shape of three holes closes to the turret while on the outer side of the frame there are three circle in an off set straight line.
Hope this helps
DJ
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 12:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Another question, in both the Trumpeter M1A1 and Dragon M1A2, the blast doors (?) on the turret bustle have three round thingys (for lack of a better word) whereas the Tamiya kit has none. Which is more accurate?

The 3 round thingys are found on later vehicles, but both variants are correct. Just like the crosswind sensor, there are numerous variants out there and all are correct.
GIBeregovoy
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Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,612 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 09:32 PM UTC
Re: blast panels, I see so it applies to, say, late-model M1A1s and current M1A2s?

Re:smoke discharger mounts - same reason as above perhaps?
Ranger74
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 09:09 AM UTC
Hi,

All M1s series of vehicles from the first XM-1s thru the M1A2s have the blow-out panels on the turret.

Jeff
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,563 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

All M1s series of vehicles from the first XM-1s thru the M1A2s have the blow-out panels on the turret.



He's talking about the 3 circular round thingys on the two blast panels on top of later M1A1s. When we drew straight M1A1s in Germany, they did not have them. When we transitioned to M1A1HAs, there were these round things on top of each panel, about 6" in diameter. Never did tell us what they were.

Some M1A1s in 1st Cav didn't have them, some did.
Tankrider
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:52 PM UTC
Greetings from an unnamed Persian Gulf country...
The "mushrooms" or "round thingies" are supposedly vents. I personally don't know idf that is wnat they are or not. As Sabot said, they first were seen on the M1A1HA's and on but seem to have been deleted on the later M1A2s and SEPs.

John
GIBeregovoy
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Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: May 31, 2002
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Armorama: 449 posts
Posted: Friday, November 08, 2002 - 01:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Greetings from an unnamed Persian Gulf country...
The "mushrooms" or "round thingies" are supposedly vents. I personally don't know idf that is wnat they are or not. As Sabot said, they first were seen on the M1A1HA's and on but seem to have been deleted on the later M1A2s and SEPs.

John



Interesting info! Thanks for that! When I build my next A2 to model a late A2 or SEP, I'll keep that in mind. However, another question - aren't the blowout panels replaceable, I mean, could it just simply removed, say, when maintaining the tank, and that those late A2s which had those 'early' panels simply had them because that was available at the depot?

BTW, I'm still perplexed on the differences for the smoke grenade launcher mounts. Has anyone noticed this too?
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 08, 2002 - 04:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Greetings from an unnamed Persian Gulf country...
The "mushrooms" or "round thingies" are supposedly vents. I personally don't know idf that is wnat they are or not. As Sabot said, they first were seen on the M1A1HA's and on but seem to have been deleted on the later M1A2s and SEPs.

John



John--can you go to the Armor Forum question on the M901? I told Delta that you were a source (dare I say fountain) of knowledge on that useless piece of machinery. He has a question on replicating the spring system which I vaguely recall was on the side of the elevated launcher. Regardless, I tend to push painful recollections out of my mind (like that clown of a brigade commander I dealt with for two years), but I digress.
thanks
DJ #:-)
Tankrider
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 08, 2002 - 10:16 PM UTC
DJ,
I did what I could for the M901 post... I am the same way about that fine piece (of S**t) that we purchased for our soldiers. I saw that same former brigade commander not too long ago at an Armor Conference and he had not changed too much.

GI,
Get the Eduard PE set for the Tamiya M1A1and use Tamiya grenade launchers form the M1, M1A1, M60A3, Chiefton or any other model that uses the British SG launchers. That will get you the best replication of the ones found on the tank.

I guess that the blow off panels could be swapped around and the clean, three vented, or welded close three vent style panels. The welded three vent panels have the non-slip surfaces with three disks welded inplace of the vents. The effect could be subtlely replicated with styrene disks on top of the panels...
HTH
John
sarge18
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: November 09, 2002
KitMaker: 272 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 04:52 AM UTC
With some of the changes, especially in the M1A2's, and some of the later modified M1A1's, the ammunition carried was increased from 40 to 42 rounds, changing the racks to a set of 18 in each bustle side, vs 17 in the older style. The purpose of this was to facilitate a possible "quick change" capability. The possibility to unbolt the blow out panels, and lift them out, remove the 16 round empty rack, and re install a full one. Not something practiced, but it is capable, as long as you have a crane available. This changed the blowout panel style to have two lift rings on each panel. Some of these had the rounded caps, for the vents, and some do not. The purpose of the vents was to even out the temperature differences between the rounds and the outside air. The greater the difference between the two, the more the fire control system has to compensate for them. Originally only intended for dry climates, to minimize the moisture in the ammo wells, they were later discontinued, partially because tanks with open vents were issued all over the place, and partially because it didn't seem to be affecting the actual performance of the ammunition. One of the maintenance chiefs I have talked with told me at one point the had removed the vented ones, sent them up to Direct Support and they came back with the vents welded shut, were remounted, and repainted. Jared Sargent