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Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
FEATURE
  251 mit Wurfrahmen
Teacher
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 05, 2003
KitMaker: 4,924 posts
Armorama: 3,679 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2005 - 11:39 AM UTC
Just up: A full build of Dragon''s new kit of the 251/2 mit Wurfrahmen

Vinnie

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
jafad
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: December 02, 2004
KitMaker: 226 posts
Armorama: 175 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2005 - 06:47 PM UTC
Another well written article Vinnie can't wait to get this kit as I've recently finished the Tamiya kit. It will be a nice comparison.
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,925 posts
Armorama: 9,484 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2005 - 08:10 PM UTC
Excellent work as usual Vinnie!

Gary, the kit has already been released in HK, two of our site advertisers, HobbyEasy and LuckyModel are carrying it on their lists...Jim
Foxy
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: December 25, 2002
KitMaker: 332 posts
Armorama: 220 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 07:06 AM UTC
nice one vinnie, outstanding work.
obviously teachers are useful for something
(just kidding )


if i won't have so many kids on the bench i would go for one, after your appetizer article.
sharkmouth
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New York, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2005 - 07:04 AM UTC
Hi Vinnie,

Beautiful build! However, the vehicle is surely a Sd.Kfz. 251/1 with rocket launchers. Keep in mind that the order you mention is dated 1944, two years after the 11PD vehicle offered as a markings option. Also note, that these vehicles still have rear bench seats and forward MG shield.

I believe it was an honest mistake by Dragon, the order cited would do better if they release the armament sprues later with an Ausf. D kit.

To convert the mortar carrier to the rocket launcher, a field conversion, it would entail removing the mortar base (mount still bolted) and the ammunition holders from the mounts that normally held the rear benches.

It is unlikely that any rocket launcher field conversion kits would include the rear bench seats plus front MG shield and hardware. I do not dispute that there were mortar carriers converted to ammunition carriers. So, to make the /2 variant, leave off the front MG and hardware (the hole can have a PE detail grommet), add the mounting lugs from where the mortar base would have been, and do not use the rear bench seats. I do not know what was placed in the area where the rear bench seats are shown, perhaps two crates with rockets?

Again, it is a great kit and a nice build.

Regards,
Saúl García
Still the oldest member posting in these forums!
Teacher
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 05, 2003
KitMaker: 4,924 posts
Armorama: 3,679 posts
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2005 - 07:15 AM UTC
'Tank Power Volume VI - sd.Kfz.251 (215)' shows a pic of the 251/2 with the mortar in situ, and the rear seats are still there along with the front ones. As are both MG's. Admittedly it's a A or B chassis....but to be honest, I think it would be foolhardy for anybody to say catagorically this is not a 251/2 converted to a rocket launcher.............based on the fact that they can't see a few bolts on the floor and it has an extra MG? And anyway, it wasn't the order I quoted.....it was the order Dragon quoted...............We all know that when somebody says "it can't have been...." somebody will find evidence that it 'has been'......
Regards
Vinnie Branigan
(Not the oldest poster here, but apparently, a damn sight more useful than some)
sharkmouth
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New York, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Friday, November 11, 2005 - 03:51 PM UTC
Hi Vinnie,

Of course, there will be exceptions. I am writing about what is in the box and how easily the modeler can make a 'true to primary documents' Sd.Kfz. 251 /2 variant converted to rocket launcher. I wrote my previous response from work and did not have the benefit of my library.

Looking at interior photos (references listed later) only the right rear bench seat was removed and used for ammunition boxes for the mortar. These photos also show the lack of a forward MG and a standard mortar base for off vehicle use. Provisions were made for only one MG34, the other side had stowage for the mortar tube. However, the scale plans by John L. Rue in Ryton's Schützenpanzer (page 189) show both front seats missing. I have not seen this configuration in any photos. Page 110 of this book does show the spare rockets stowed in the fighting compartment.

Page 24 of Squadron's Sd.Kfz. 251 in Action illustrates a vehicle which is lacking the forward MG and could possibly be a /2 conversion.

Note I wrote, “the order you mention”, since it is what you did with the information Dragon provided to you regarding Kstn No. 1126. I have asked Tom Jentz for clarification on the rocket launcher conversions since he, and Hilary L. Doyle, are working on the third part of their Panzer Tracts title. 15-3 which will continue the coverage of the Sd.Kfz. 251 series. Since they are away measuring real vehicles for the book, they have yet to respond. Their Panzer Tracts 15-2 has some excellent plans on the early Sd.Kfz. 251 which clarify a lot of questions.

It seems that I continue to be the oldest poster. Any prizes come with that honor?

Regards,
Saúl García :-)