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Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
whats a good LAV-25 or Hummer kit?
drewgimpy
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Utah, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 04:19 PM UTC
I am coming to the end of my sherman and would like to get another piece of armor lined up. I am thinking of doing something modern with wheels for some reason. What kits are good for the LAV-25 or the Hummer, and which ones should I stay away from. I would like to build them in 1/35 scale. I have seen the Italari kits of the two in a local shop but I haven't been happy with some of their ariplane kits I have built mainly because I hate raised pannel lines. Do the Italari vehicles have raised pannel lines? Anyway, please help me out so I don't buy a crapy kit. Thanks for the help
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 07:19 PM UTC
Only one real choice here since the Ecsi LAVs are all OOP. IIRC both the Italeri and Esci LAV series had their problems, but the Italeri was the better of the two. So if you do see an Esci one (AMT/Ertl samething) sitting on the shelf, it's still there after all these years for a reason.

Same deal with the Hummers. The Esci(AMT/Ertl) ones are the worse, but OOP. The Italeri ones are plentiful, cheap and come in many body styles, but none of them have proper USMC fording gear, even though they may have "USMC" decals. The Tamiya one with a Bushmaster is, believe it or not, an Italeri kit. Some people complain that the Italeri ones have the wrong shaped nose.

The best HMMWV kits on the market are the Academy kits. I have three different boxings, a 2-door cargo/troop carrier with soft top, an M1025 with M-60 mounted and an M966 TOW armament carrier. The last two are basically the same kit, but the M966 comes with a full crew (driver, TC, gunner) as well as all the same parts as the M1025. So the M966 is the best deal (kit #1363).

I have every HMMWV produced by the Italeri molds (includes the Tamiya and Revell of Germany boxings), so if you have a question regarding a particular kit, fire away.
tankbuster
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Wien, Austria
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 134 posts
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 07:23 PM UTC
I have finished my lav-at recently and a report should be online here soon. except for the turret/interior the italeri kit/revell kit lav-at is identical to the lav-25.
there are certain things which are incorrect if you compare the kit to George Bradfords
scale drawings, also the profile of the wheels is wrong. what annoyed me the most is the poor fitting of the parts.
I will press my friend who did the pics to burn the pics on cd so that I can upload my report.

regards, werner
cfbush2000
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North Dakota, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 10:55 PM UTC
Rob,
I picked up the Tamiya kit with the Bushmaster a while back. When I started researching I found info that the Bushmaster version was never used. Is that true? Are any still around and have they ever been deployed?
Thanks
Chuck
GunTruck
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California, United States
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 11:37 PM UTC
Well, tagging on the previous posts here, I agree that the Italeri LAV series is the best you can get. Run away from the ESCI/ERTL releases - if you encounter them.

I've built all of the Hummer kits in the past, as I really used to be into them, and the Academy model kits are the best of the bunch. The Academy M997 Maxi-Ambulance is a standout amongst all of them, really a nice model rendition, but out of production. If you find them, buy a spare to keep in your collection.

Gunnie
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 12:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I picked up the Tamiya kit with the Bushmaster a while back. When I started researching I found info that the Bushmaster version was never used. Is that true? Are any still around and have they ever been deployed?

Only one was built, but was not accepted for service, much like the Italeri "Desert Patrol" version. Both were converted back into standard HMMWV variants. Neither existed past the prototype stage.

Eduard did make a PE set for the Bushmaster version. Both are interesting variants, I wonder how the Bushmaster armed variant would have fared during the Black Hawk Down convoy. ('nother idea for you Gunnie)
cfbush2000
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 12:30 AM UTC
Thanks Rob.

Gunnie...
I have the M997. Bought one for me and one for my son. Haven't got to it yet. It looks really good. Do you have pics of the built-up kit?
GunTruck
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 12:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I picked up the Tamiya kit with the Bushmaster a while back. When I started researching I found info that the Bushmaster version was never used. Is that true? Are any still around and have they ever been deployed?

Only one was built, but was not accepted for service, much like the Italeri "Desert Patrol" version. Both were converted back into standard HMMWV variants. Neither existed past the prototype stage.

Eduard did make a PE set for the Bushmaster version. Both are interesting variants, I wonder how the Bushmaster armed variant would have fared during the Black Hawk Down convoy. ('nother idea for you Gunnie)



I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't gone to see Black Hawk Down yet. I didn't go see Saving Private Ryan or Pearl Harbor either. It's hard for me to watch those movies, and I tend to procrastinate until the video/DVD release. I honestly don't know about the convoy mission in BHD enough (yet) to comment without sounding ignorant

The Bushmaster armed HMMWV variant would have been an interesting vehicle to have in any convoy setting though. I thought if I ever decided to build the Tamiya kit again, I would convert it to the Supplemental Armored profile. If accepted for service, I felt the Supplemental Armored HMMWV's would have become the platforms for the Bushmaster Cannon. I think these vehicles weren't too heavy to have been airlifted by a Black Hawk too - really adding some fire support in a convoy mission. Could be wrong there, however...

Gunnie
GunTruck
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 12:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Rob.

Gunnie...
I have the M997. Bought one for me and one for my son. Haven't got to it yet. It looks really good. Do you have pics of the built-up kit?



I'll go digging around to see CF! If you have one of the Fine Scale Modeler special issues on Gulf War models - my M997 Maxi-Ambulance is photographed in there on the section of available models of vehicles that participated in the War. The caption is wrong I believe - I don't live in Sunnydale, California. Actually, NO ONE lives in Sunnydale, California (Buffy-Land)

Gunnie
cfbush2000
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North Dakota, United States
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 12:53 AM UTC
:-) I'll check to see if I have that issue. I've only got about 16 months worth of back issues.
And I'll disregard the address.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 01:15 AM UTC
FYI--they've never been referred to as "maxi-abulances" to my knowledge. We just called them ambulances or sometimes referred to as "cracker-boxes" because that's what the old ambulances based on the Chevy and Dodge chassis were called (M1010 & M886).
GunTruck
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 02:28 AM UTC
Yeah - I know. I used the term to differentiate between that one and the older and rarer "Mini" that ESCI/ERTL put out. Although, in the Air Force, I've heard them as refered to "Maxi's" many times out when puttering around the flightline or base in general. So, for me, the nickname is familiar.

We drove Armament Carriers and never called them anything else, but I heard some Army personnel label them "Shellbacks" during my tours. Interesting what the guys in different service branches call items of equipment. I've never heard anyone call the B-1 "Bone" before - though I don't doubt there are "Bone Drivers" out there who do so. Same with BUFF's when the crews flew in B-52's for typhoon-evac outta Clark AB in the Phillippines, Warthogs when A-10's visited the base on deployment. I never met a fighter pilot who called his F-15 an "Eagle" while standing close boundary sentry duty on the flightline. Haven't met anyone who calls the B-2 "Spirit" or the B-1 by its 'official' nickname "Lancer" either...

Gunnie
Sabot
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 03:00 AM UTC
We usually refer to the M1025 series as the "fast back" or "hard top Hummer". Sometimes called a "scout HMMWV" or "TOW HMMWV" based on what's sticking out of the roof. I've never heard them called armament carriers either, although the manual calls them that.

And Abrams are referred to as "the tank" or "M1", regardless of which version (IP/A1/A2).
ArmouredSprue
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: January 09, 2002
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 03:44 AM UTC
Guys!
I got a Hummer Ambulance, and as Rob said "cracker-boxes" is an interesting name.
I'm planning to build it as used during the Desert Storm, should I paint it overall sand or the camo pattern? What was more used?
Cheers!
GunTruck
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 06:10 AM UTC
Interesting Rob, I wondered if tankers really called the M1 "Abrams". I've talked to old M60A2 tankers, and they never called it "starship", but likened it to one when you asked about the equipment for that time. Most of the comments weren't flattering otherwise.

Our Squadron didn't receive their M998's until the end of 1988 - beginning of 1989. It was awkward at first, remembering when we first got 'em. Hum-V stuck a little, "truck" was used quite a bit, "jeep" was tossed around but didn't stick on at all. When I rotated out of the squadron in the fall of '89 - no name had yet stuck on the M998. Maybe they adopted a moniker like "fastback" later on...

Funny, our Security Police Squadron didn't convert to the BDU until 1987 - springtime I remember. That's really all we called them other than "camos". I missed the fatigues though - when you broke them in they were really comfortable. What was uncomfortable was flying a C-130 across the Pacific. Took one from Moffett Field here in the SF Bay Area - all the way to the Republic of Nauru in the Central Pacific. I could give you a whole lot of nickames for that bird other than "Hercules"!

Gunnie :-)
GunTruck
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 06:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Guys!
I got a Hummer Ambulance, and as Rob said "cracker-boxes" is an interesting name.
I'm planning to build it as used during the Desert Storm, should I paint it overall sand or the camo pattern? What was more used?
Cheers!



Well Paulo, I did mine in Sand - but I think either would look nice. Air Force M997's were deployed in both schemes as vehicles came from different parts of the world, I'm sure the same applied to Army Ambulances too.

Gunnie
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2002 - 06:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I got a Hummer Ambulance, and as Rob said "cracker-boxes" is an interesting name.
I'm planning to build it as used during the Desert Storm, should I paint it overall sand or the camo pattern? What was more used?

The name cracker-boxes was from the Dodge and Chevy based trucks, the sides looked thin, like a cracker box was set on top of the truck.

As far as sand vs. NATO this is easy to determine. If the vehicle was from a CONUS (Continental United States or state side) based unit, it was sand, a USAREUR (United States Army Europe) based unit, then it stayed NATO 3-color.
ARENGCA
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 13, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 05:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Guys!
I got a Hummer Ambulance, and as Rob said "cracker-boxes" is an interesting name.
I'm planning to build it as used during the Desert Storm, should I paint it overall sand or the camo pattern? What was more used?
Cheers!



Keep in mind that most of the sand colored vehicles at that time (and since) didn't start out sand colored. Virtually all of them were repainted, either before being shipped, or in theater. The under-chassis below the edges of the body were/are usually a faded black, and the body was whatever green pattern (or lack of pattern) was in use. The sand color was sprayed over the existing paint without taking a lot of time for masking. There was overspray that got onto the under-chassis and into the wheel wells, but they were not usually painted intentionally. Rule of thumb is : If a PFC working in the hot sun for 12 hours at a time, wearing a respirator mask, could not easily get to it with an automotive paint sprayer, then it didn't get painted. Another interesting note is that the overspray included when the wheels were painted. A lot of sand colored tires drove off the paint stands.

The upshot of all this is to remember to paint the undersurfaces in a dark color, before painting the body in sand. Oh, and the interiors were rarely painted anything but the basic Euro I Green that they come from the factory in, unless it was overspray.

GunTruck
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 05:31 AM UTC
Welcome to Armorama ARENGCA! Jump in wherever you want - the water's always warm here!

Gunnie
drewgimpy
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Utah, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 06:34 PM UTC
A quick welcome to ARENGCA, and back to the original topic.

Thanks for all the advice. I ended up going with the Italeri TOW version. I picked it up for $15 at a local shop. On first inspection it looks like a great kit. I was a little shy about getting an italeri model after a being disapointed with a couple of their aircraft models I have. That leads me to another question but I will start another post on it since it doesn't go under Armor.

Anyway, thanks for all the input guys. I will keep you posted on how things go, and fire off any questions I have while building.
GreyHunter
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: March 10, 2002
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2002 - 04:06 AM UTC
If you're looking for something else, then take a look at the AFV Club kit of the Korean Humvee. It's the Academy Cargo version with extra resin part to build the Korean version.

go to: http://www.argo.net.au/jbwhole/afvf.htm
and then take a look at the "AFVS3504 1/35 HUMMER M998"