login   |    register
 Community Forum: The Springbok Club
Want to meet up with modelers in your country or region? This is the place.
SA Armour Models
KING_TIGER
Visit this Community
North-West, South Africa
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 53 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 07:27 PM UTC
Hi Guys,

I am really struggling to find models of SA Armour. I have tried getting hold of the guys at Aerographix and BaxMod, but they are not answering their emails.

Can anyone advise me where the est place would be to start looking for these models.

Then a question to all out there. Why is there such lack of SA armour models around? I was always under the impression that our Armour was rated amoungst the top in the world, yet nobody seems to be producing them (i.e. like the big companys, Tamiya, Academy ect).

Thanks
Michaelvk
Visit this Community
Western Cape, South Africa
Joined: January 04, 2004
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2006 - 03:53 AM UTC
I've been looking for that stuff for ages now too. I had a list of them, but the last updates to their sites were 2001 or so.. The Olifant conversion set is apparently out of production now too..

I would love to see a 1:35 kit of the G6 (which outclasses the M109 Paladin in range and accuracy). That has to be one of the best looking military vehicles out there, but until then we will have to make do with the 500 Tigers, 300 Shermans and 400 M1A1/A2's...

(not that I'm complaining, though..)
KING_TIGER
Visit this Community
North-West, South Africa
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 53 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2006 - 10:41 AM UTC
My sentiments exactly. We really have some top stuff, which people overlook sometimes.

And like you say it really is an awesome piece of machinery. I have a few pictures of it in action, which i will post tommorow. I normally go to the Artillery Demonstration that the SANDF hold at 1Art School in Potchefstroom anaully and to see it in action is really amazing.

I just really wish there were alot more models around. Hopefully oneday.

A question to you. Do you first build the whole model before paint it or build the individual sections and paint it afterwards?
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2006 - 10:54 AM UTC
Howzit James

Firstly, welcome to the Big A!

Regarding your query...

Bit of a bummer that Aero and Bax don't reply to your mails... I'm not sure if Aero are even still producing commercial model kits... Bax mod are still producing, I'm not sure why Chris hasn't replied to your mail, when I mail him I get a reply within a few hours... When did you mail him? As he has been overseas recently and perhaps hasn't noticed the mail...

Baxmod produce many of the SADF and SANDF vehicles in 1/72 resin, and they are regulars on the IPMS Cape Town competition night. Chris is working on a 1/35 SANDF vehicle, but the vehicle name slips my mind at the moment. As I said, keep mailing Chris, I'm confident he will reply when he gets a chance.

The Olifant MkIB resin conversion kit Michael refers to was for the Tamiya 1/35 Centurion. The Centurion, until recently, was OOP. And thus when the moulds for the conversion kit tired, the designer and the manufacturer parted ways and retired the moulds and the operation. That said, Tamiya has recently reintroduced their Centurion, so perhaps if their is enough demand we will see the kit re-released. Added to that Government's decision to re-introduce the Olifant upgrade programme.... who knows.... maybe we'll see someone produce a MkII upgrade kit soon...

As for the lack of SANDF armour.... well strickly speaking the only armour we have is the Olifant... the rest is categorised as soft-skins... but either way... it's simple economics... supply and demand.... there is simply not enough demand to justify ANY of the big boys mass producing SANDF vehicles. Hell, if they're not even prepared to produce WWII Allied vehicles and figures, which I'll guarantee you has a bigger potential market than SANDF vehicles, what chance do you really think there is of them producing the SANDF stuff?? Remember, these guys deal with the global market. They don't think about the 200 odd serious modellers in one little country in southern Africa...

Think about it... if you had the opportunity to produce one of two products... the first one, you could potentially sell 200,000 units at $50... the second, you could sell maybe 1,000 units at $60.... which would you choose?

As for our armour being rated as among the best in the world? A MBT designed in 1944/5? And upgraded with parts no-one else wanted? No. There are far better MBT's than the Olifant.

Yes, our IED equipment is definitely amongst the best. There is no doubt about that. Heck, we can't sell the Rooivalk, but we sure sold a lot of IED vehicles...

Time to get off the soapbox... but please feel free to debate any of my points... :-)

Rudi
KING_TIGER
Visit this Community
North-West, South Africa
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 53 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2006 - 12:29 PM UTC
Hi Rudi

Thanks for the Welcome, yes I am new to the big A!

Also thanks for the comments. I guess I should have made the distinction between Armor and IDE. So i made myself look abit like the amateur I am. I must just mention that I have no interest in the Olifant, because it is pretty much a bag of mixed pieces. My interest lay more towards the G5, G6 and Rooikat. Apologies again for my mistake, but i was caught in the moment of having received my first reply in a posting. Tanks, worldwide there are alot better than our Olifant. That I think is common knowledge.

And yes it is all about economics in the end. It is sad in a way. You would think that there you would have a more represented set of Models, than just those that make the money, but i guess that is the simple economics of life as well.

I will mail Chris again now and see whether I get a reply. :-)

I value your comments and for pointing out my error

Hope to hear from you again.

James
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2006 - 12:50 PM UTC
Howzit James,

As those darn Aussies say "No worries, mate!"

Regarding the Rooikat... you are correct there... without a doubt one of the best armoured cars on the market... but more suited to the southern african terrain and conditions...

As for the G-5 and G-6.... awesome beasts!!!! :-) :-) And how about that SPG? I think it's called the T-6?

I seem to recall Aerographix producing these artillery pieces in resin.... but pricey!

But on the topic of artillery... personally I feel artillery is generally a discounted and forgotten subject by model manufacturers... pity really, because they could make for some great dioramas.... and we all know how a good artillery barrage serves to suppress the enemy before sending in the troopies...

Rudi
Michaelvk
Visit this Community
Western Cape, South Africa
Joined: January 04, 2004
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2006 - 03:59 PM UTC
Money makes the world go round, but it makes it a tad bland at times.. I think Iraq used G-5's so you'de expect to see those at least.. (correct me if I'm wrong..)

King Tiger, I use various methodes these days, but lean towards building the hull, turret, roadwheels and tracks as sub assemblies, paint them, wash & drybrush, then assemble, then tie them together with an overall weathering. Mud behind the roadwheels is applied before the roadwheels are added.

Email me and I'll happily go over stuff with you!
KING_TIGER
Visit this Community
North-West, South Africa
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 53 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:43 AM UTC
Thanks Michaelvk!

Will mail as soon as start with my next project. Building a Dragon, Sd.kfz 251/7 Ausf.D 3 in 1. It is the specialized engineer version. Looking forward to completing this one as it has so many extra parts.

I have attached the link to my Gallery containing the pics I have of the G5, G6, and Valkiri (MLR system). I have loads more andsome short clips of them actually loading and firing.

Hope you enjoy them.

My Gallery Photos
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:30 AM UTC
Howzit James,

Those DML 3-in-1 kits are awesome. If I didn't prefer Allied armour I'd definitely buy some of the Pz's and Tigers... May I ask where you managed to buy it from? I'm always curious who's importing what - specifically DML...

Regarding your earlier painting question... you can virtually construct the entire 251 before spraying it...

As I always tell folks, Armorama is more than just a bunch of forums... check out these reviews of the various DML 251's...

251/7 Ausf. D '3-in-one' (1:35)
In Box Review : Sd.Kfz. 251 Ausf. C (1:35)
Dragon 251/17 w/2cm Schwebelafette (1:35)

Other DML reviews HERE

And these 251 features (like builds)...

Building the Dragon 251/17 w Schwebelafette
251 D Falke
AFV Resource Feature No.1 - Sd.Kfz 251
251 mit Wurfrahmen Building Dragon's Sd.Kfz. 251/9 ausf D
DML Sd.Kfz.251/16 Flammpanzerwagen

Also, don't be afraid to ask questions in the general modelling forums. The folks are really helpful.

HTH

Rudi
KING_TIGER
Visit this Community
North-West, South Africa
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 53 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:52 AM UTC
Thanks Rudi.

I am really finding this site useful, and you guys are really helpful as well.

As to your question of where I purchased the Model. It was from Victors Hobbies here in Gauteng. I am also considering getting the Tiger 3in1 as you mentioned, it just looks fantastic.

Thanks again for all the advice.
Michaelvk
Visit this Community
Western Cape, South Africa
Joined: January 04, 2004
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 02:11 PM UTC
Always glad to help!

Those Tigers are ab-so-lutely gorgeous! I HIGHLY recommend them! Can't beat the price either. Where as a Tamiya kit + PE, indy links and metal barrel would put you into remortgaging your house, the DML's are 3/4 the price of the Tamiya kit and its got all the goodies stuffed inside the box.

I'm not sure what the availability is of Dragon in SA, but my mate at www.plasticmodelbouw.nl has them at good prices and ships overseas too..
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 02:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm not sure what the availability is of Dragon in SA



Howzit Michael,

IIRC there is no official DML agent in SA any more. This is through no doing of the local hobby agents, but rather due to poor support and supply chain from DML. I guess the orders from SA were so small that they were low-priority - as the guys would receive less than half the orders...

Fear not though, my friend... there is always a solution... there are a few privateers that are importing DML and other kits for resale...

Personally though, I buy my own kits from Hobbyeasy and Luckymodel in Hong Kong.... I'm also going to be ordering from Squadron in the US and Historex Agents in the UK within the next 3-4 months...

In case you are wondering why, it's simple. Variety and price... One can order stuff from Hong Kong at less than half the price of the local hobby store - and that includes air freight! :-) That way I can spend the same as I would at the LHS but buy a helluva lot more! :-) :-) :-)

Rudi
Michaelvk
Visit this Community
Western Cape, South Africa
Joined: January 04, 2004
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 02:41 PM UTC
I'm guessing you've got a credit card then..

I just get laughed at by bank managers and escorted out by security when applying for one..
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 02:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm guessing you've got a credit card then..

I just get laughed at by bank managers and escorted out by security when applying for one..



LOL :-) :-) Don't worry, boet, when you get to SA they'll be begging you to take theirs...

BTW, have you guys checked out the campaigns page? There are 2 SA interest campaigns running this year...

SiyaAfrika
Club Med: Sand, Sea, Sunshine... and Bullets!

Feel free to join us...

Rudi
Michaelvk
Visit this Community
Western Cape, South Africa
Joined: January 04, 2004
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 04:19 PM UTC
Cool. I've got just the project planned. A universal carrier from an SA regiment hooning through a sicilian street.. I'll post a pic of the scene I want to make later..
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 04:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Cool. I've got just the project planned. A universal carrier from an SA regiment hooning through a sicilian street.. I'll post a pic of the scene I want to make later..



That'll be great for Club Med
Michaelvk
Visit this Community
Western Cape, South Africa
Joined: January 04, 2004
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 04:40 PM UTC
Here we go..



(should anyone have a clearer version of this pic, then I'd love to know..)

Sign me up!
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 06:21 PM UTC
That's an awesome picture. Should make for a great dio. What scale you planning to do it in? You doing the figures as well? Should make for some interesting conversions.
Michaelvk
Visit this Community
Western Cape, South Africa
Joined: January 04, 2004
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 06:42 PM UTC
Thats what I thought too when I saw it. Keeps the girlfriend happy too because I'm showing interest in her country (I've also got a coastal command catalina on the roster.. Her grandfather flew in one patrolling the cape during the war).

I'm thinking of the Tamiya 1:35 one with eduard PE.. I considered a resicast conversion, but not at that price (Kit is 18, resicast mod is 50.. Ummm.. No.). I'll have to find better tracks (MK) as the kit ones aren't all that crash hot, apparently.

I'm going to see if I can find some figures for it. Failing that I'll attempt surgery on standard ones (hopefully not, though..).. I'll scratch the scenery because I can :-)
Graugrun
Visit this Community
Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: May 03, 2005
KitMaker: 125 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 09:30 PM UTC
Hi Guys,

My 2 cents worth if I may, The DML agency has just been takenover by "Tops". They took over the Revell agency a year or so ago and have more than tripelled the amount of containers brought in and sold compared to the previous agent.

One of their reasons for this success was that they did not try to make an over the top margin - and now Revell models are rather cheaper than before. Well it worked and people bought and bought .

They apparentley plan to to do the same with Dragon and a rough figure mentioned to me from one of the hobby shops was + - R275.00 for the Tiger 1 late version 3 in 1 kit!

Well that makes it as cheap or cheaper than importing them.

Well don't quote me on the pricing, maybe it won't be that good - but it is sure to drop to a level that will make us all a lot happier!!!

Now thats good news!!!!!

BTW - Victor hobbies has closed shop (for the moment or permantley, I'm not sure).

Should I find out more soon about the DML stuff I'll let you guys know.

Cheers,

Graugrun
Michaelvk
Visit this Community
Western Cape, South Africa
Joined: January 04, 2004
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 09:48 PM UTC
Heeey! Thats Eurpean pricing! Woohoo!
Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:23 PM UTC
Hi Matthew

That is great news indeed... I just really hope our dear LHS's start stocking the stuff... as you know, that's a whole new kettle of fish.

And Matthew.... further good news... you now have 2 MIG fans in CPT... Michael (well he'll be here soon) and me! :-) :-) :-) :-) With any luck we'll bring the other guys round!

Chat soon

Rudi
KING_TIGER
Visit this Community
North-West, South Africa
Joined: January 03, 2006
KitMaker: 53 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 10:15 AM UTC
Hi Guys,

On Victors Hobbies. They have closed but it is not a permanent closure. They were forced to move since the rent had gone drastically for the shop they were hiring at Fourways. As it was the end of the lease period as well they decided to close down until such time they can find another shop.

As for the price Victors was asking for the the Tiger 1 late version 3 in 1 kit, it was around R475 if I wasnt mistaken. It could have been more though.

I have also ordered a few from Diorama accessories for Sqadron in the States. Their prices are realy cheap, but after looking a the Hong Kong sites that Tarok posted. They are definately alot cheaper on the stuff I was looking at compared to Sqadron.

My 2 cents worth as well

Cheers
Vorster
Visit this Community
North-West, South Africa
Joined: March 07, 2005
KitMaker: 119 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 12:31 PM UTC
Hi Guys

Been a long time before I had anything to say so here goes.

King_Tiger welcome to the forum and when you are here in Potch give us a ring and our band of intrepid moddelers here can meet up with you and help you with some better close ups of the equipment (got a buddy thats a tiffy at 44 art bat).

To the others I hope it is a great moddeling year for you. :-)

On South African equipment. Well there is certainly a market, although small, for it. I know of guys outside of SA which builds the stuff and are forever asking about it and even guys in SA. My appy here at the varsity likes the SAAF stuff, unobtainable as it is, and he dreams of building a Alouette III for his dad as he had flown them in the SAAF.

There is one company which does carry a comprehensive range of SA stuff but it is 1/285 scale. Nicely detailed and not to expensive. Ideal for those large dioramas. Pics of the stuff can be found here:

http://wargaming.info/6mm/page2.shtml

The url of the company which makes the stuff is:

http://www.scotiagrendel.com/scotia/

On the Dragon stuff. Well the new supplier promises to get it in cheap so lets have a look at what happens. Failing that go to hobby easy. Our guys swear by it and buy enough stuff in a year to fill a small container.


Tarok
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Armorama: 3,245 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well there is certainly a market, although small, for it.



Howzit Theunis,

There is no doubt that there is a market for SANDF equipment. Heck, even if there is only one willing buyer for a product there is a market.
The problem is that on the global scale it simply isn't economically viable for the big guns to manufacture SANDF vehicles/artillery.
I dissagree on the SAAF point. Most of the SAAF aircraft has been produced as a model kit, whether it be 1/72 or 1/48. If it's OOP, you can usually find it on E-Bay or from a club-member. In fact, isn't the Alloutte produced by Heller? There are also many local modellers producing resin conversion kits for SAAF aircraft...

My 0.02c

Rudi