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REVIEW
Trumpeter T-62
keenan
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Posted: Friday, December 18, 2009 - 06:12 AM UTC


Jeremy Coyle reviews Trumpeter''s T-62 Model 1962

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
Gundam-Mecha
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Posted: Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 12:48 PM UTC
Great Review, is this kit now on general release?

metooshelah
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Posted: Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 01:08 PM UTC
I've been really waiting for this one thanks!

Jon, yes, this kit is available at various on-line shops.
TonyDz
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Posted: Sunday, December 20, 2009 - 12:09 AM UTC
This review seems to have been done thru rose colored glasses. I guess it's ok for those who buid out of the box. For those who care about accuracy, it's quite the disapointment. Here's what people who get into the nuts and bolts of things think.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1256368532/T-62+woes

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1257783750/T-62+Mod+1962+lower+hull+photos...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1257857608/T-62+rear+deck+tweak...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1257945222/T-62+hull+lengthened...

I wasn't impressed with it.
Gundam-Mecha
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Posted: Sunday, December 20, 2009 - 12:24 AM UTC
Thanks Tony thats interesting to see. It'll be interesting to read through these threads and get other views.

Has Perth Military Modelling done a review of this yet?
long_tom
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Posted: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 11:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This review seems to have been done thru rose colored glasses. I guess it's ok for those who buid out of the box. For those who care about accuracy, it's quite the disapointment. Here's what people who get into the nuts and bolts of things think.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1256368532/T-62+woes

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1257783750/T-62+Mod+1962+lower+hull+photos...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1257857608/T-62+rear+deck+tweak...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1257945222/T-62+hull+lengthened...

I wasn't impressed with it.



Well, I can give that one a miss then. Thanks.
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 08:06 AM UTC
I would politely disagree with this kit being worth missing. On a scale of 1 to 100, the Tamiya kit is maybe a 35. The Trumpeter kit is a 90. Yes, the kit has issues, as noted on the Missing-links threads. But also note, many of the "critics" have said the kit is excellent, they are just pointing out a lot of nit-pciky problems. You can build the kit up very nicely OOB. The same cannot be said of the old Tamiya offering.

As for Zaloga being wrong and the Trumpeter lower hull being correct, we need to see the source of that information. The threads criticising the T-62 lower hull also discuss the accuracy of sources and even show lower hulls of T-62 tanks. This is not a lightly warmed over criticism for the sake of making Trumpeter look bad or to make all the hard work being done look poorly.

There are real issues with this kit that should be looked at so that the NEXT releases of kits will be better. Trumpeter needs to step up and admit this, make the changes they can (affordably), and also look over all the helpfull data being provided. The entire modelling community is involved in this, I learned more about the lower hull of the T-62 in the last 6 weeks than I ever have about any other tank, and all of that research (and even some fixes)is available to Trumpeter. Make some fixes, acknowledge the hard work done by this research, and become a Red Armor modelling Hero company.

But in the end, this kit builds up to be a VERY nice looking T-62. I have several, and plan to buy more over time. I recomend it.
TonyDz
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Posted: Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 10:24 AM UTC
I never said the kit should be passed on, if Tom want's to do that, it's his choice. If you want to build a T62 OOB, it looks more like a T62 than the old Tamiya kit. If your concered about accuracy, ther's a lot of work to be done.


Quoted Text

On a scale of 1 to 100, the Tamiya kit is maybe a 35. The Trumpeter kit is a 90



You might, I'd give it a 60 at best.


Quoted Text

As for Zaloga being wrong and the Trumpeter lower hull being correct, we need to see the source of that information.



Well, he said he was using the technical drawings for it. Then someone else posted with measurements from the actual vehicle that showed Trumpeter to be wrong. That's just the start. What about the fenders? On the real vehicle they slope up from the rear to the front. Not parallel to the ground as Trumpeter has them. Then that creates more problems making the front fenders too squashed. They got the fan housing wrong. The rear plate should slope out from bottom to the top. Those are some of the major points.

All that being said, if you want to build a T62 OOB, it can be made into a fairly nice kit. If you are a consumer concered about accuracy and listened to Trumpeter hype this kit for over 2 years, you have many reasons to be dissapointed Also the right as any consumer to complain and want a better product for your buck.
Yoni_Lev
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Posted: Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 02:02 PM UTC
I can't help but feel a bit frustrated with the situation, as we've all been waiting for what seems like forever for the release of this kit. I'm not what you would consider a rivet-counter, but I do want accurate kits in return for my hard-earned cash. I was pretty impressed with Trumpeter's line of KVs when they hit the shelves. They were mostly spot-on, well researched, nicely molded, fun to build and very afforable, to the point that I squirreled a few extras away in the stash. Frankly, I was hoping that the T-62 would be more of the same and then some; to have this new release fall short in some important areas is a disappointment.

Ok, yes, on one hand, it's much better than the ancient Tamiya offering. Yes, it builds up nicely and looks good OOB. Yes, it's a great starting point for a detailed, accurate build. But on the other hand, it could have been done better, considering the amount of time Trumpeter had to make it right - it's not like they rushed it into production. A competent modeler can work over the smaller bugaboos, and I'm sure the aftermarket will offer fixes for the kit's bigger goofs. But from my perspective, should we have to make these types of corrections to a brand new kit that is selling for $35 - $45 US, just to get an accurate model? My Magic 8-Ball says "my reply is no".

My wallet and I will probably sit this dance out and wait to see if (any) corrections are made to the future releases of the kit.

-YL
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 05:37 PM UTC
I said 90% not because it is super accurate, but because that is what the average model builder woudl rate it, someone who does not care that the fenders do not slope or the fan housing is wrong. We represent the "tip of the spear", not the average.

I will admit I am a bit dissappointed too. There are a lot of little things that should have been right and are not. My guess is that Trumpeter relied on one museum piece that was not properly ID'd...along the same lines as Tamiya's T-72.

And price is not Trumpeter, that is Stevens Intl. Trumpter kits can be bought in China for @ US$9. Shipping is not adding to it either, it is the importer.

Tony, if you rate the Trumpeter kit at 60, then the old Tamiya kit is what, a 5? Just want to see what kind of metric you are using. Regardless, people are now aware of the issues of the kit and can get it if they want. I have already seen several very nice OOB builds of this kit and even looking for the issues, it is hard to tell them without a reference book to compare to.

I would, however, again advise Trumpeter to use this wealth of information to fix the kit into something spectacular.
Yoni_Lev
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Posted: Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 09:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text

And price is not Trumpeter, that is Stevens Intl. Trumpter kits can be bought in China for @ US$9. Shipping is not adding to it either, it is the importer.



Just to clarify, Jacques, I wasn't complaining about the price per se. I would gladly fork over $45 or even $55 to get a A+ kit of this subject, but sadly, the T-62 isn't an A+ kit at the moment. For me, it was a matter of actual cost vs. perceived value, which brings me to...


Quoted Text

I would, however, again advise Trumpeter to use this wealth of information to fix the kit into something spectacular.



And if they do, I'll be one of the first in line with cash in hand. For two.

-YL
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
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Posted: Friday, December 25, 2009 - 12:58 AM UTC
Don't the Trumps have the T-62 1972 model in the pipe as well? I'm sure I saw the box art of it here some time ago.

Depending on how far along with the development that kit they are, maybe they'll fix some of the "ishoos" that have been highlighted?

- Steve
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, December 25, 2009 - 01:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Don't the Trumps have the T-62 1972 model in the pipe as well? I'm sure I saw the box art of it here some time ago





More here : http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4581

Frenchy
MCR
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Posted: Friday, December 25, 2009 - 05:49 PM UTC
The Trumpeter kit has so many flaws (hull, fenders, rear plate angle, turret, etc.) that to give it more than a 5 or 6 on a one to ten scale is being too charitable.
It being better than the Tamiya kit doesn't give it any extra credit in my view (heck, we thought Big T's effort was bad even when that kit was new!)
Regardless of its price in China it is expensive here in the States and pretty much everywhere else for that matter. And for the price you are not getting a very good representation of a T-62.
Sure, with some work you can "fix" most of the problems but the thing would have to sell for half of what it does to make it worth while for me.
(BTW, Is there somewhere I can mail order the thing for $9.00?? I'd snag a couple in a heartbeat at that price!)

Mark
Jacques
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 03:01 AM UTC
Mark - Get a contact in Hong Kong. The only catch is shipping a couple of kits usually runs about US$15...which is why there seems to be no real competition for the real importer right now.

Also, all the problems that have been pointed out are ones that only those of us that care to know about this stuff will notice. We, the nut-and-bolt fans, are not in the majority of either the buyers or the builders.

I agree that it is extreemly annoying that a manufacturer cannot get ahold of good information, cross check it, and use it for their molds. But the manufacturer's are not aiming for us, they are aiming for the largest group of buyers...and those buyers don't care a whit about the lower hull problems, the fender issues, the blower size...etc. They don't . And they are normal modellers with good skills that get awards at contests; they are not inexperienced or foolish.

That said, they are also looking at how we handle this, "we" meaning both sides of this issue. Will Trumpeter improve the kit now that these issues have surfaced? How beligerent will the "experts" be? Will this devolve into another modelling subject like dealing with Tiger tanks...where any minor discrepancy is loudly criticised? That will hurt Red Armor modeling far more than this kit Trumpeter put out.

So let's see what happens next. Will Trumpeter rise up to the challenge of dealing with this kit?
afv_rob
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 07:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The Trumpeter kit has so many flaws (hull, fenders, rear plate angle, turret, etc.) that to give it more than a 5 or 6 on a one to ten scale is being too charitable.
It being better than the Tamiya kit doesn't give it any extra credit in my view (heck, we thought Big T's effort was bad even when that kit was new!)
Regardless of its price in China it is expensive here in the States and pretty much everywhere else for that matter. And for the price you are not getting a very good representation of a T-62.
Sure, with some work you can "fix" most of the problems but the thing would have to sell for half of what it does to make it worth while for me.
(BTW, Is there somewhere I can mail order the thing for $9.00?? I'd snag a couple in a heartbeat at that price!)

Mark



Mark-Check this out if you think the Trumpeter kit cant be built into a good representation of a T-62 with little work
Yoni_Lev
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 08:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also, all the problems that have been pointed out are ones that only those of us that care to know about this stuff will notice. We, the nut-and-bolt fans, are not in the majority of either the buyers or the builders.

I agree that it is extreemly annoying that a manufacturer cannot get ahold of good information, cross check it, and use it for their molds. But the manufacturer's are not aiming for us, they are aiming for the largest group of buyers...and those buyers don't care a whit about the lower hull problems, the fender issues, the blower size...etc.



Agreed, but does it cost the manufacturer any more to do things right the first time, as opposed to fixing mistakes in tooling later? Why not put out the best kit you can, given the available resources, and rake in the cash from both groups of buyers (the rivet-counters and the more casual modeler)?

I think that's what sticks in my craw. An excellent model is good for everybody all the way around. The detail nuts will love it, the builders in the middle will love it, and the manufacturer will love the sales. A model that is lacking in some areas is bound to turn off a portion of the buying public. And honestly, there was no reason for this kit to come out of the gate with the aforementioned issues, as both good research material and feedback from knowledgeable modelers is readily available. This kit wasn't exactly rushed into production, and I for one would have been happy to wait another 6 or 8 months to crack open the box on a top-tier model of the subject.

Still, there's the hope that Trumpy will correct the issues in future boxings of the kit. Like I said, if they do, I'll be waiting in line to buy one.

Just my two shekels.

-YL
MCR
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 09:04 AM UTC


Quoted Text

Mark-Check this out if you think the Trumpeter kit cant be built into a good representation of a T-62 with little work



No, no. I said exactly the opposite. It can be built up nicely (into an accurate T-62) but only with a lot of work. Steve, as always, did a very nice job on his model but only corrected a very few of the problems.

Mark
MCR
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 09:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Mark - Get a contact in Hong Kong. The only catch is shipping a couple of kits usually runs about US$15...which is why there seems to be no real competition for the real importer right now.



Even at $24 it would be a far, far better deal than what these kits are running in stores here in the States.
I emailed a buddy in Hong Kong on business (also a modeler) and the shop he checked has them running just short of $20 from what he says. Even Lucky Model has them selling for $28 less shipping.


Quoted Text

Also, all the problems that have been pointed out are ones that only those of us that care to know about this stuff will notice. We, the nut-and-bolt fans, are not in the majority of either the buyers or the builders.



I know that well and have said as much on a number of occasions. But as far as only rivet counters caring, wouldn't that be true of all kits?


Quoted Text

I agree that it is extreemly annoying that a manufacturer cannot get ahold of good information, cross check it, and use it for their molds. But the manufacturer's are not aiming for us, they are aiming for the largest group of buyers...and those buyers don't care a whit about the lower hull problems, the fender issues, the blower size...etc. They don't . And they are normal modellers with good skills that get awards at contests; they are not inexperienced or foolish.



I would argue that the exact opposite is true; Trupeter, DML, Tamiya, etc., are not aiming at the "average" buyer/builder at all anymore and therein lies a problem. Look at the number of completely invisible details (that is, details that once the kit is build can not even be seen) that DML include in their newer kits. This is done exclusively for the advanced modeling crowd because, as you say, no one else would even care if they're included or not (I don't even care about most of it!).
But even leaving that aside, what "average" guy is going to be willing to plop down fifty plus bucks (now on the low side of most new kits) for something he just wants to glue together and paint?
It is the concentration on including tons of detail and added goodies that is to no small extent responsible for how idiotically expensive new kits are getting. (Though not anything like the "whole" reason.)


Quoted Text

That said, they are also looking at how we handle this, "we" meaning both sides of this issue. Will Trumpeter improve the kit now that these issues have surfaced? How beligerent will the "experts" be? Will this devolve into another modelling subject like dealing with Tiger tanks...where any minor discrepancy is loudly criticised? That will hurt Red Armor modeling far more than this kit Trumpeter put out.



Over too many years of modeling I think we've all heard that argument but I'll ask you; what has been the result of all that criticism? Certainly not fewer Tigers (or any other subject for that matter), that's for damn sure. Instead it has been an unthought of level of detail and accuracy and an explosion of new and better kits!


Quoted Text

So let's see what happens next. Will Trumpeter rise up to the challenge of dealing with this kit?



My vote is for "no".

Mark
Violetrock
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 10:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Mark - Get a contact in Hong Kong. The only catch is shipping a couple of kits usually runs about US$15...which is why there seems to be no real competition for the real importer right now.



Even at $24 it would be a far, far better deal than what these kits are running in stores here in the States.
I emailed a buddy in Hong Kong on business (also a modeler) and the shop he checked has them running just short of $20 from what he says. Even Lucky Model has them selling for $28 less shipping.


Quoted Text

Also, all the problems that have been pointed out are ones that only those of us that care to know about this stuff will notice. We, the nut-and-bolt fans, are not in the majority of either the buyers or the builders.



I know that well and have said as much on a number of occasions. But as far as only rivet counters caring, wouldn't that be true of all kits?


Quoted Text

I agree that it is extreemly annoying that a manufacturer cannot get ahold of good information, cross check it, and use it for their molds. But the manufacturer's are not aiming for us, they are aiming for the largest group of buyers...and those buyers don't care a whit about the lower hull problems, the fender issues, the blower size...etc. They don't . And they are normal modellers with good skills that get awards at contests; they are not inexperienced or foolish.



I would argue that the exact opposite is true; Trupeter, DML, Tamiya, etc., are not aiming at the "average" buyer/builder at all anymore and therein lies a problem. Look at the number of completely invisible details (that is, details that once the kit is build can not even be seen) that DML include in their newer kits. This is done exclusively for the advanced modeling crowd because, as you say, no one else would even care if they're included or not (I don't even care about most of it!).
But even leaving that aside, what "average" guy is going to be willing to plop down fifty plus bucks (now on the low side of most new kits) for something he just wants to glue together and paint?
It is the concentration on including tons of detail and added goodies that is to no small extent responsible for how idiotically expensive new kits are getting. (Though not anything like the "whole" reason.)


Quoted Text

That said, they are also looking at how we handle this, "we" meaning both sides of this issue. Will Trumpeter improve the kit now that these issues have surfaced? How beligerent will the "experts" be? Will this devolve into another modelling subject like dealing with Tiger tanks...where any minor discrepancy is loudly criticised? That will hurt Red Armor modeling far more than this kit Trumpeter put out.



Over too many years of modeling I think we've all heard that argument but I'll ask you; what has been the result of all that criticism? Certainly not fewer Tigers (or any other subject for that matter), that's for damn sure. Instead it has been an unthought of level of detail and accuracy and an explosion of new and better kits!


Quoted Text

So let's see what happens next. Will Trumpeter rise up to the challenge of dealing with this kit?



My vote is for "no".

Mark



My vote is yes.

They even corrected the wrong lower frontal armour shields on their Spanish version Centauro.
The corrected part is included in the new Italian late Centauro boxing, which is not needed in there. The sprues will definitely show up in later boxings of the Spanish Centauro too. And this problem didn´t cause any waves or flame wars. It was a one time thread over on ML. And Trumpeter corrected it.

I have to say well done Trumpeter!
afv_rob
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 11:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Quoted Text

Mark-Check this out if you think the Trumpeter kit cant be built into a good representation of a T-62 with little work



No, no. I said exactly the opposite. It can be built up nicely (into an accurate T-62) but only with a lot of work. Steve, as always, did a very nice job on his model but only corrected a very few of the problems.

Mark



Well the only dimensional issue he corrected was the loaders hatch location. Everything else where minor fixes that one would have to add to the Tamiya T-55 as well, and his model looks very nice. Only if you were armed with a set of calipers and T-62 measurements would you notice the dimensional issues. What im trying to say is that the Trumpeter T-62, is for most modelers a fair representation of the T-62, with need for minor improvements(fuel lines etc)
TonyDz
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 11:26 AM UTC
Well said Mark!


Quoted Text

They even corrected the wrong lower frontal armour shields on their Spanish version Centauro.
The corrected part is included in the new Italian late Centauro boxing, which is not needed in there. The sprues will definitely show up in later boxings of the Spanish Centauro too. And this problem didn´t cause any waves or flame wars. It was a one time thread over on ML.



Good point, Thomas. Where did they get the information? From the dreaded rivet counters on ML. That seems to be how this stuff gets fixed these days if they don't want to seek out the correct information in the developement stage.


Quoted Text

Tony, if you rate the Trumpeter kit at 60, then the old Tamiya kit is what, a 5? Just want to see what kind of metric you are using.



Ok, Jacques, I do it on a 1-10 scale, 10 being the best. For a 1-35 T62 I give the Tamiya kit a 2 (it's not even 1-35, closer to 1-32) and the Trumpeter kit a 6. I'm glad Trumpeter is doing modern subjects. I don't think us finding fault with certain kits is going to stop that. What gets me going is after almost 3 years of hype, half that time them pushing back the release date, I was looking for a really nice kit. The link above for the T62 Model `72 is over a year old. Their KV series was very well done. Some of their newer Chinese stuff like the Type89 MLRS, was outstanding. I just don't understand how this kit came lacking as it does.


Quoted Text

I have already seen several very nice OOB builds of this kit and even looking for the issues, it is hard to tell them without a reference book to compare to.



Well I guess to the trained eye they are not hard to spot. Like the fender problem. That was one of the first things that really got me looking hard at this kit. Since the the fenders don't slope up along the hull as they should, the tracks have almost no clearence withe front fenders. They did a much better job of it on their artwork for the Model `72 than they did on the kit. I'm sorry, that ruins things for me. If it doesn't for you, great, you got your T62.


Quoted Text

Well the only dimensional issue he corrected was the loaders hatch location. Everything else where minor fixes that one would have to add to the Tamiya T-55 as well, and his model looks very nice. Only if you were armed with a set of calipers and T-62 measurements would you notice the dimensional issues. What im trying to say is that the Trumpeter T-62, is for most modelers a fair representation of the T-62, with need for minor improvements(fuel lines etc)



If that works for you Rob, glad to hear it. It wasn't Zaloga that found all the problems. It was Nick Cortese and many others on ML, and it's not just a few minor things. If you're happy with the kit, and it works for you, good deal. For me and others it needs major, not minor, improvements.That's what works for us.
afv_rob
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 11:44 AM UTC



Quoted Text

Well the only dimensional issue he corrected was the loaders hatch location. Everything else where minor fixes that one would have to add to the Tamiya T-55 as well, and his model looks very nice. Only if you were armed with a set of calipers and T-62 measurements would you notice the dimensional issues. What im trying to say is that the Trumpeter T-62, is for most modelers a fair representation of the T-62, with need for minor improvements(fuel lines etc)



If that works for you Rob, glad to hear it. It wasn't Zaloga that found all the problems. It was Nick Cortese and many others on ML, and it's not just a few minor things. If you're happy with the kit, and it works for you, good deal. For me and others it needs major, not minor, improvements.That's what works for us.
[/quote]

This doesnt work for me, I have countless projects which have been stalled because I obsess over correcting issues and making the model as accurate as possible. However I'm merely pointing out that if a modeler wishes to build this model with some minor detailing they can still produce a good looking model, which I have used Zalogas model as an example, where by a little detailing has produced a decent enough looking model. Compared to if one used the Tamiya T-62 which requires massive amounts of work to even reach a reasonable level.
TonyDz
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 11:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This doesnt work for me, I have countless projects which have been stalled because I obsess over correcting issues and making the model as accurate as possible.



I hear you there, you and me both.


Quoted Text

Compared to if one used the Tamiya T-62 which requires massive amounts of work to even reach a reasonable level.



There is only one build on the Tamiya kit that even looks semi decent to me that I've seen.

http://www.panzer35.ru/forum/34-285-1

There was another T62 build I saw a couple years ago, but some one had chopped up a Tamiya T55 and used an aftermarket turret to do that one.
afv_rob
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Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 12:07 PM UTC
Gary Owlsey built a very good T-62, based on stretching the Tamiya T-55 Hull, with a CMD turret if I remember correctly, his model can be seen over the the KCAMPS site.

That T-62 from the Russian site is impressive, but goes some way to illustrate the amount of work one has to do to bring the Tamiya kit anywhere near to todays standards.