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Campaigns
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
Campaigns
SS-74
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Vatican City
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 02:55 PM UTC
There is something I like to say about campaigns. Sorry if I sound a bit too serious, if I offend anyone, I apologize for that in advance.

I think the original idea of the campaign central command is to centralize the campaigns, so we don't have too many of them at one time. But now we seems to have many campaigns going on and some of them are even over lapping. i.e. The Helicopter build is a little over lapped with the wings over water campaign (which also have a helicopter cat)

I just wonder if it's a good idea that lots of campaigns are going on at the same time, because it's always easier to join a campaign, then not many people actually finish them. Because of the campaigns are competing for their times.

Just my 2 cents, maybe we should spread the campaigns a little out.

Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,592 posts
Armorama: 9,067 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 03:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text

...I think the original idea of the campaign central command is to centralize the campaigns, so we don't have too many of them at one time. But now we seems to have many campaigns going on and some of them are even over lapping....

Glad someone else felt the same way I did. When we started off, we didn't want any campaign interfering with another. Now they overlap or even run concurrently.

I guess you can just not participate in any campaign if it interferes with one you really want to join. Of course some of you super builders that spit out completed kits like .50 cal rounds have no problems doing all of them.
Jaster
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Michigan, United States
Joined: January 15, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 03:38 PM UTC
Perhaps too much of a good thing?

I think the ground swell of enthusiasm is the culprit, nothing more. Of course that still doesn't fix the problem.

Best I can tell there are 3 Campaigns running now- 2 in A/C and 1 in Armor. T2K is sorta underway...so I guess it could be considered 2 Armor as well.

There is a lot of "talk" regarding other campaigns however. As a new guy, it seems to me that there is just a lot of excitement with Campaigns.

The Heli Campaign is just talk at this point isn't it?

Whatever the case- I love the idea of Campaigns, and salute the crew that put them together and run 'em!

My $.02,nothing more, nothing less.

Jim
Plasticbattle
#003
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Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 09:52 PM UTC
Have to agree with Dave. Thats why I suggested a while back some sort of plan to help keep the amount of similar campaigns running at the same time to at most 2. But the majority felt that it was great to have as many going as there was demand for.
It is a bit dissapointing that less than 50% are finishing from the original sign up figure. I guess Jaster has hit the nail on the head with it being enthusiasm. I know I would love to enter them all, but Im seriously trying to be selective at the moment .. so I dont overstretch the mark. Gunnie has his work cut out!!
TwistedFate
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 11, 2003
KitMaker: 805 posts
Armorama: 286 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 10:38 PM UTC
I don't see a problem. I don't think dates for the Helo Campaign have been solidified, yet. We have 1 Armor campaign running, and 1 Aircraft campaign running. Why is 2 campaigns considered too many? The Naval campaign doesn't kick off for another couple of weeks and is so radically different from the AoA campaign that less than 1/3 of the registered participants of the Naval campaign are also in the AoA.

The only prosepective threads I see getting any real action are T2K and Helos, although half-tracks is starting to roll a bit..

A little overlap isn't too bad. Especially considering the AoA campaign will be 2 months old when Naval starts and the Naval campaign will be two months old when the Helo campaign starts if the Nov. 1 start date is kept for Helo's and consider the fact that Helo's is slated for a 16 week run time giving plenty of build time. (it has also been suggested already in that thread that it be delayed, BTW)

Now also consider that Phantom_Major tried to start the Helo campaign for newbs. He was restricting it to OOB and kept a long build time to entice those that may be intimidated to enter a full scale campaign alongside those that go full PE and super-detailing. It looks now like it may be changing, which I think is sad, but that is another soap box for another time.

The way I see it, until it shows up on the main Campaign screen. it's still just talk no matter how solid it may seem. Right now this includes T2K and Helo.

That's what this forum is for, to centralize the talk and see what the interest level there is and beat out the details. We have Gunnie working with it, but for the most part the campaigns should be self policing. If the start date overlaps, then the main thread is where that concern should be voiced so that it can be adjusted if need be. If (just a picking an armour builders name at random here) WeWillHold doesn't think Helo and Naval Aviation should overlap it doesn't really carry a lot of weight with me since I know he won't be in either one, just like what I have to say about armour campaigns shouldn't matter to armour builders.

Now I don't think we should have multiple campaigns covering similar subjects running at the same time. Part of the Naval Aviation campaign has a subset of the Helo campaign, but since they were originally intended for different user levels I don't see a problem here. While having a Bomber campaign and WWII Bomber campaign overlap may be a bit problematic as one campaign completely encompasses the other.
slodder
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 11:57 PM UTC
There is a lot of talk about various campaigns and ideas for new ones. I think Gunnie's Docket is a nice thread to keep in mind. It summarizes all the 'in process' concepts.

I don't know if there are 'to many' going on or if the quantitiy can even be trimmed back. I learned my lesson on signing on for to many from a personal stand point. I have to really check the time frames and quantities and my personal building pace and consider being a spectator on some.
Jaster
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Michigan, United States
Joined: January 15, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 02:36 AM UTC
The proposed "Campaign Calendar" would go a long ways towards easing this problem (especially for us visual thinkers).

Maybe have the visual timeframe linked to the official Campaign page so that interested folks could check out the details of a campaign! And a way to differentiate Confirmed Campaigns from Proposed Campaigns, again with the Visuals linked to descriptions...

This means more work...it also means that someone needs to be the OWNER/ PROPRIETOR of each Campaign- which happens currently, but unless I am mistaken, ONLY after a Campaign is OFFICIAL. Someone will need to have OWNERSHIP of each proposed Campaign as well- and that person will have to keep an updated set of guidelines for linking too.

And since I have gone and opened my big yap on the visual timeline...I'll cobble together a rough version of the visuals, with simulated links.

Jim
SS-74
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Vatican City
Joined: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 03:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

There is something I like to say about campaigns. Sorry if I sound a bit too serious, if I offend anyone, I apologize for that in advance.

I think the original idea of the campaign central command is to centralize the campaigns, so we don't have too many of them at one time. But now we seems to have many campaigns going on and some of them are even over lapping. i.e. The Helicopter build is a little over lapped with the wings over water campaign (which also have a helicopter cat)

I just wonder if it's a good idea that lots of campaigns are going on at the same time, because it's always easier to join a campaign, then not many people actually finish them. Because of the campaigns are competing for their times.

Just my 2 cents, maybe we should spread the campaigns a little out.




I have just read your notice in the campaign thread.... i would just like to explain this as several people seem to be missing the point of the Helicopter campaign. This campaign is aimed at new members and people who are new to modelling where as in my opinion the Wings over Water campaign is aimed at the more experienced members or professionals. I realise that some people wish to take part in both and that is thier right to do so but, they shouldn't complain that there are too many campaigns going on, after all no one is forcing you too join a campaign... unless you are a medal hunter trying to boost your own ego by having a row of ribbons under your name everytime you post a thread... in which case that is your problem ( this last comment was a generalisation and not aimed at anyone person)



Phantom,

If you had posted this in the public, you don't have to PM me exactly the same thing. It's an observation I made in regarding to too many campaign (that In my Opinion) going on at once. I believe no one need to boost their egos in this site, especially old hands like many of us, we are already rather well received.

I have nothing against this Helicopter campaign, if not for all the campaigns I am already in and plan to finish, I would have join. God knows, I am prolly the only person in this site that had done two helicopters and posted here.

whiterook
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Colorado, United States
Joined: December 18, 2002
KitMaker: 263 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:44 AM UTC
Everyone:
The only thing that bothers me is when you have 20 people sign up but only 5 people finish the campaign or build. Come on pick the one you want (or two or three) but go the distence

PorkChop
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: September 11, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 09:59 AM UTC
IMHO, part of the issue is many people want thier current project to be the campaign or they want the rules to refelct what they are working on rather a generic or broad-based subject. Hence I think in some cases you see requests for sub-categories that will pull maybe one or 2 people, if they finish.
I've never run a campaign, but I suspect those types of requests are a real headache....
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,615 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 12:55 PM UTC
I think the main reason we have fewer finishers of campaigns may be due to a lack of confidence in their work...they simply may feel intimidated. I am also sure there are many who just "bite off more than they can chew" or, with world events as they are, happened to "be away" for hte whole campaign. I don't think this should slow the campaigns down as long as the ten intereted members step forward and such. Heck, i am thinking of getting in on the Barbarosa campaign just because it look fun. And I like to think that is what the campaigns are for, to encourage others to build.

ALthough I LOVE to get those "itty-bitty" ribbons, Heh heh heh! :-)
WeWillHold
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 17, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 01:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

God knows, I am prolly the only person in this site that had done two helicopters and posted here.



And a horse, and a Bismark, and Da Phantom Menace, artillery, and Da Skyraider etc.etc etc etc. etc.

Our UOM hero!!!!
Jaster
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Michigan, United States
Joined: January 15, 2002
KitMaker: 579 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 03:32 PM UTC
The other thing that keeps folks from finishing the various campaigns is that mutha we call life!

Most of the builders are "adults" with the whole load of responsibilities that come with title, things like kids, jobs, bills and so on! This is a Hobby after all- the time we all would like to spend on it vice the time we actually can are sometimes VERY different!

The fact that "only" 50% complete the Campaign is just the way life is!

Jim
keenan
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Indiana, United States
Joined: October 16, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 04:25 PM UTC
I would like to interject a comment, if I may:

I signed on for the sniper campaign, months ago, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me as far as this hobby goes. I actually finished something, submitted pictures for review and received feedback from other people who knew what I was doing.

I signed on for the "Splash" campaign and ended up have a splash in my basement, where my bench is and could not finish in time, or at all.

I signed up for the Barbarossa campaign, and am almost done with my first entry.

I signed up for the T2K campaign, and I think I was actually on board with this one from its inception. I look forward to finishing several beasties for that one.

I thought joining some of the wingy thingy campaings just for the heck of it but I don't have the access to hobby shops that some of you do.

In any case, If I sign on, I intend to stay on.

Shaun
GunTruck
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California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 08, 2003 - 02:51 AM UTC
Guys, I respectfully offer these insights as the one who volunteered to be the Campaign Manager.

First - you do not have to join in any campaign or group build if you feel overwhelmed. There are some 3000 members on this site. If they can become compelled into greater participation by a lot of modeling activity - then so be it! That is the Number One goal. Presently, I do feel we've got enough going on for 2003 - but - that doesn't mean there can't be more activity in Spaceships or other Forums where activity is light. I'd love to see a Spaceship Campaign jump up to round out this year.

Second - I am only trying to place campaign and group build ideas that have been fleshed out enough to be considered for "official" status. Not every idea is a good one, not every idea has a Leader that steps forward, and not every idea should become a campaign just by virtue of being tossed out there. I cannot, and won't, try to plug in every single idea into a calendar or the Campaign Docket. It will become too cumbersome to follow and clutter is an enemy of fun. Don't add over-legislation to the hobby activity.

Third - I, like many of you, have a career, family, and even a personal business that challenges my time. I try to keep the entries and updates brief and to the point in respect to all of you - and myself. Toss me a little bone, please. I also try to assist the Campaign Leaders in administering their activities. A Leader needs to take on the responsibility of keeping that activity going from start to finish supporting all the modelers participating. I tried to set that standard with the CWCO Campaign. I can't do it alone. This is what I volunteered for, and I left the floor open for suggestions. If you submit an idea and take on the mantle of Leader - then please take the reins too.

Gunnie
Jaster
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Michigan, United States
Joined: January 15, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 08, 2003 - 12:37 PM UTC
Gunnie;

You have done, and are doing, an excellent job! The whole Campaign thing is GREAT!! I finished my first kit in 20+ years because of it! Without the Campaign Concept I am unssure when I would have gotten anything actually DONE! Gunnie keep on doin what you've been doing!!

As you said it is 100% voluntary- no one came by the house and strong-armed me into CWCO, T2K or Red Dawn! If I am a wee bit optimistic as to what I can complete it is my fault! And since I have the tendency to over-commit myself I will probably goof a Campaign or 2 up as far as completing in time!

No one needs to take this too seriously. I am here for one fundamental reason- THIS IS FUN! I love building kits, I enjoy what everyone has to say, I learn a lot...and there is a sense of comraderie here!!

If it isn't fun DON'T DO IT! If you overextend your campaign commitments- oh well...learn from it and go on.

The large number of Campaigns being discussed is merely a reflection of peoples enthusiasm for the concept. In short order it will seek its' own level and the "system" will come back into equilibrium.

Gunnie, and ALL the Armorama people, the ones who keep this place going, THANKS!!!!

Again- this is my $.02- nothing more and nothing less.

Jim
Jaster
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Michigan, United States
Joined: January 15, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 08, 2003 - 02:09 PM UTC
For what its' worth here is a rough version of the Campaign Calendar Timeline. I tried to get the dates right BUT that is not the point of this exercise.






This would be a good tool for people to see what is running at any time, also a good tool for people proposing Campaigns to do some scheduling work so there are not too many running simultaneously.

As I envison this thing the names of the Campaign would link to more SPECIFIC info about the Campaigns...Like Gunnie's posts in the Campaign Docket.

Jim

NOTE: The colored boxes in the box at the bottom right should have headings over them-
Naval/ Dio/ AC/ Armor