login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Contests
This group is home to our various contests, promotions and drawings.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Has Axis modelling peaked?
knewton
Visit this Community
New Zealand
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 953 posts
Armorama: 865 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 04, 2019 - 06:09 PM UTC
I was going through the Mosonmagyaróvár 2019 gallery, as I do each year, in absolute amazement at the entries, and noted the lack of World War Two German entries. Counting them, there are approximately 57 Axis entries for 176 other (modern, both world wars, and anything in between). I say appropriately, but I’m fairly sure i didn’t miss-count a Churchill for a Tiger, or count a Panther twice. I started this a few years ago after one poster here bemoaned “yet another Tiger kit”, and it is a trend, the decline of Axis modelling subjects at contests. Modern and WW1 subjects have increased most, anecdotally, as has Allied, just not to the same extent. Interesting for the hobby, but this is neither scientific nor conclusive.

Kylie
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,091 posts
Armorama: 2,041 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 04, 2019 - 07:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I was going through the Mosonmagyaróvár 2019 gallery, as I do each year, in absolute amazement at the entries



I've been going there for the past few years and it seems to me that they they manage to raise the bar every time. The level of the models presented is very high indeed.


Quoted Text

noted the lack of World War Two German entries. Counting them, there are approximately 57 Axis entries for 176 other (modern, both world wars, and anything in between).



Did you count all scales and dioramas as well?

PanzerKarl
Visit this Community
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,309 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 04, 2019 - 09:49 PM UTC
Has Axis modelling peaked?
No,your just looking in the wrong places.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 5,001 posts
Armorama: 4,223 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 04, 2019 - 09:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Has Axis modelling peaked?
No,your just looking in the wrong places.



Agree to that.

It's just that with so many manufacturers the manufacturers are forced to consider other subjects as well.
If it had peaked we would not be seeing axis subjects from the "new" manufacturers.
Now there can be more variation among the non-axis exhibits at shows.
/ Robin
system
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: November 24, 2008
KitMaker: 345 posts
Armorama: 344 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 04, 2019 - 10:56 PM UTC
I think the market has diversified in recent years which is a good thing. In the 1990-2000s there was big wave of interest in modelling Axis armour.

In fact, it seemed at one stage that you had to model Panzers to be seen as a 'serious' modeller. So you'd get endless articles in magazines where modellers would criticize the latest Panzer IV kit for having the wrong pattern fire extinguisher or wire cutters for a June 1943 production vehicle, then the next month would go on to build a wildly inaccurate Abrams or Challenger without comment as though the same standards of research didn't apply. I don't mind saying that used to wind me up.

But what's happened since is - probably driven by China - manufacturers have realised modellers are interested in building all kinds of subjects, and want the same standards of accuracy across the board.

So based on recent releases from Takom, Meng, Rye, Border etc. I wouldn't say Axis has diminished, but fortunately there's now a much healthier mix of all nationalities and eras.
Armorsmith
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 09, 2015
KitMaker: 962 posts
Armorama: 906 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 01:02 AM UTC
An interesting question. Up until about 5-7 years ago my builds were 95% WWII subjects and of those 95% were Axis. One day it dawned on me that I had been building the same subjects over and over for nearly 45 years. I quit cold turkey. Got rid of nearly all my WWII stuff and went into the Cold War, Modern, Israeli kits. For me at least it was boredom and all the new modern releases revitalized my interest. Even with all the "new" WWII kits I have had very little desire to return. So for me at least the answer to your question is yes. I suspect there are quite a few out there like me. Hobby wide the answer is probably no. WWII, especially Axis subjects, continue to be a fascination for many.
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,010 posts
Armorama: 3,954 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 05:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I was going through the Mosonmagyaróvár 2019 gallery, as I do each year, in absolute amazement at the entries, and noted the lack of World War Two German entries. Counting them, there are approximately 57 Axis entries for 176 other (modern, both world wars, and anything in between). I say appropriately, but I’m fairly sure i didn’t miss-count a Churchill for a Tiger, or count a Panther twice. I started this a few years ago after one poster here bemoaned “yet another Tiger kit”, and it is a trend, the decline of Axis modelling subjects at contests. Modern and WW1 subjects have increased most, anecdotally, as has Allied, just not to the same extent. Interesting for the hobby, but this is neither scientific nor conclusive.

Kylie



Has AXIS Modeling peaked..? Probably NOT; but my wish would be that it would behoove the model manufacturers to BROADEN THEIR HORIZONS... There IS SOME activity in the direction of other nations' military equipment, spanning the 20th-21st Centuries' various types. A big HURRAH for that...
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 2,901 posts
Armorama: 2,732 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 05:32 AM UTC
Hmmmm. Maybe it's a complex matrix of partial answers!

I attend several IPMS shows each year, and have done so for the past 10+ years. I am an armor builder and focus on what stuff appears on the various armor tables.

Observations over 10 yrs of local and regional shows in the south and more recently the southwest, and the 2018 IPMS Nats:

There remains a large AXIS armor component in the shows. This varies relative to other major armor components among shows, but AXIS is "always", on average, a large portion of the "WWII era" stuff. The modern post-WWII component(s) have been growing in size / count over the years - again with much variation among shows. Likewise, the pre-WWII stuff has increased over time.

Interestingly, the relative gains in "moderns" and "pre-WWII" sections does not seem to have come at any average loss from the Axis component - The Axis component remains pretty much the same count as 10 years ago... But there just seem to be somewhat more total armor kits out then there were at many shows 10 years ago!

Perplexing to me, however, is the general apparent lack of the NEWER Axis kits and subjects on tables... There's a plethora of new and different Axis subjects kitted in styrene over the recent years, but Tigers I and II, Panthers, and some other "core Axis" armor subjects remain dominant. It appears that many of the more-complex Axis kits from years back (i'm thinking here of the many parts-rich Dragon and Bronco editions and subjects, for instance), and most of the newer complex Axis offerings, simply are not making it into shows. YET.

There are rarely ever any of the rather complex "big half-track AA vehicles" (a rich subset of Axis armor kits...), few of the many well-detailed open-top AT vehicle kits, few of the many detailed armored-car kits, few of the many (and growing number of) Axis soft-skins done and shown. But this has "always" pretty much been the case for Axis stuff at shows, in my experience. A few subjects persist as being the popular stuff, and most is simply never seen.

There IS a difference between Axis and other armor sub-sets... The diversity and supply of "moderns" and "pre-WWII" subjects and kits has grown MUCH MORE dramatically over the past several years. There are now a LOT of offerings. So folks wanting non-Axis WWII subjects now have a lot more to choose and work from. So it stands to reason that we are seeing more of these things at shows. And that these will mostly be newer kits. "Duh"!

But I don't see any real changing trends in how many Axis builds show up, so many folks who liked Axis "back when" are still with Axis, and newer modelers are still getting into Axis (yes, I also pay some attention to the builders at shows and note a continuing turn-over in builders, with new names every show and year).

Where's the "answer" to the original posted question in all this? Certainly nothing "black or white, yes or no" here!

There ARE new Axis kits on show tables, but Older Axis subjects remain popular, even with newer builders. Axis show numbers remain pretty constant. There are increasing numbers of Modern and Allied and pre-WWII builds - probably reflecting the increasing availability of these in styrene kit form.

FWIW: I don't see any convincing sign that Axis may have "peaked". I do, however, see a clearly-increasing total diversity of "armor" subjects on show tables, with non-Axis being the greatest contributor to that diversity.

Cheers! Bob

PS: I'm an old Axis builder... But have recently embraced some of the growing diversity of Russian "non-KV, non-T-34" WWII and modern, French post-war, and IDF stuff, too. BUT... My most-recent IPMS show "win" was 1st in Axis armor (for a Pz.38(t) Ausf. E) at the IPMS Region 8 show in Las Vegas, NV, in April!
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,010 posts
Armorama: 3,954 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 05:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I was going through the Mosonmagyaróvár 2019 gallery, as I do each year, in absolute amazement at the entries, and noted the lack of World War Two German entries. Counting them, there are approximately 57 Axis entries for 176 other (modern, both world wars, and anything in between). I say appropriately, but I’m fairly sure i didn’t miss-count a Churchill for a Tiger, or count a Panther twice. I started this a few years ago after one poster here bemoaned “yet another Tiger kit”, and it is a trend, the decline of Axis modelling subjects at contests. Modern and WW1 subjects have increased most, anecdotally, as has Allied, just not to the same extent. Interesting for the hobby, but this is neither scientific nor conclusive.

Kylie



Perhaps the European modelers are onto something- After all, how many "Tri-Color Camo" Panthers and Tigers I & II can one gaze upon year after year, after year..?

PS- Over in the "NEWS" section, HOBBY BOSS has just announced "yet another Tiger kit"...
27-1025
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,167 posts
Armorama: 1,114 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 06:45 AM UTC
I attended both the AMPS show in Atlanta a couple months ago and the IPMS RDUCON in Raleigh yesterday. There were plenty of Axis subjects as usual but it seems I’m also seeing lots more Allied subjects too plus post WWII has really increased not surprisingly. In Raleigh there was a much younger crowd than I’ve normally seen in recent years which bodes well for the hobby.
Lakota
#123
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 975 posts
Armorama: 554 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 06:59 AM UTC
I think part of the reason may be there is just more high-quality, non-Axis, non-WW II kits out there now. World War II was 70-some years ago. Lots of history has happened since then and lots of new kits. Another part of the equation is we're getting older. I have 15-20 good years of modeling left. Do I want to spend it all on Panthers and Tigers?
That said, I'll still do Panthers and Tigers but I may switch it up a bit with more Allied equipment and more Korean War, Vietnam War, Desert Storm, etc. models.
Take care,

Don "Lakota"
knewton
Visit this Community
New Zealand
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 953 posts
Armorama: 865 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 07:08 AM UTC
Good morning gents,

Interesting points raised there, thanks. I don’t think, and am not suggesting, Axis modelling is about to fade out any time soon. Rather that other modelling subjects have grown numerically whereas Axis has not to the same extent, despite an increasing number of subjects, and this is reflected on the competition tables. Certainly a few years ago there were little to no IDF subjects,for example, (Eitan 8x8 has just entered service, so hopefully we’ll see that as a kit soon), now there are several all to a good standard in terms of detail and accuracy. As good as any Panzer III, IV, V, or VI (I did laugh at the fire extinguisher example, in agreement).

I do think this is a great time to be in the hobby, and it bodes well for its future that there are new, young builders coming through, with a greater range of kit subjects to choose from.
Bodeen
#026
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,635 posts
Armorama: 1,265 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 07:16 AM UTC
I grew up on Tamiya, Italeri and Monogram kits. The Axis stuff just fascinated me. The predominant modeling magazine was Military Modeler. They presented mostly Axis subjects in their articles. I guess I will always model Tigers and Panthers but recently I've gotten into 1/35 Sci Fi., Hasegawa Maschinen Krieger, Bandai UC Hardgraph/ Gundam and MAiM Front 46 stuff. I am broadening my horizons so to speak.
GregCopplin
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: September 06, 2011
KitMaker: 108 posts
Armorama: 103 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 07:32 AM UTC
I’d say it hasn’t, if anything it’s still climbing look at all these manufactures cranking out what if tanks and people seem to be buying them up. I’d like to see more armor from other nations and more figures from the other axis partners.
GazzaS
#424
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,126 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 09:00 AM UTC
I'm primarily a German-military Builder. Born in Germany, German and German descent parents... I think I have the right...lol

I don't imagine I'll ever change. I don't do Beute or paper panzers and feel no need to build any Sherman variant, but if I ever do, the first one will be the IDF Super Sherman.

But I'm glad to see more subjects coming out that cover other nations. I'm all for diversity... just not on my bench.



Gaz
27-1025
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,167 posts
Armorama: 1,114 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 09:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm primarily a German-military Builder. Born in Germany, German and German descent parents... I think I have the right...lol

I don't imagine I'll ever change. I don't do Beute or paper panzers and feel no need to build any Sherman variant, but if I ever do, the first one will be the IDF Super Sherman.

But I'm glad to see more subjects coming out that cover other nations. I'm all for diversity... just not on my bench.



Gaz



Just one Sherman and you'll never look back. So many variants so little time.....
knewton
Visit this Community
New Zealand
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 953 posts
Armorama: 865 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 09:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm all for diversity... just not on my bench.

Gaz



Hahahaha I snorted coffee when I read that; love it. Spoken like a true blue Aussie! On ya, bro.
ALBOWIE
Visit this Community
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,520 posts
Armorama: 1,480 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 09:48 AM UTC
Possibly but I doubt it. Twenty years ago it seemed to be all encompassing but this was due to what was being released and to my mind, a self fulfilling prophecy (Only German Sells) as that was 95% of new releases. With the advent of new manufacturers offering subjects we never dreamed we would see the modeler had a greater choice of quality kits to do that weren't WW2 German and could build good sized collections on their favourite themes (Modern, Sherman's, WW1 etc) which is why I feel we are seeing this greater diversity in competitions. In the past the only models with the level of detail, aftermarket etc to build a show stunner were predominantly German WW2. Now there is no shortage of Hi Quality kits of other Genres equally supported by AM, References etc. A true golden age where if you like WW2 German you are catered to, If you like Modern, you are catered to, if you like Shermans you are catered to, If you like Israeli you are catered to etc, etc.

Al
wedgetail53
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 639 posts
Armorama: 610 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 12:13 PM UTC
G'day gents

Interesting comments. I wonder how long it will take for some of the manufacturers to start producing Allied AFVs with interiors such as Cromwell, Comet, Sherman, Centurion etc. They certainly wouldn't have to look very far for material - we have at least three Centurions here in south-east Queensland alone. Maybe then we will start to see a drop in Axis representation at shows, but until then I doubt it.

Regards

Rob
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 2,901 posts
Armorama: 2,732 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 01:25 PM UTC
OK, Rob, I get it! Some Allied builders are being slighted! BAD model companies, BAD! Nobody has done a Comet, Centurion, or Cromwell with a complete interior yet. BAD!

Hey! Strangely, there really isn't any mainstream styrene Pz. III or Pz. IV with a complete interior yet, either!

And I wist for something like a Russian T-72/80/90 type with a complete interior. I get strange dreams over sometime maybe seeing one of those tiny, cramped Russian turrets with that auto-loader rig inside kitted up in 1/35! And I would, at the least, swoon were some company to trot out a nicely-done 1/35 styrene Merkava (of any version or mark) with complete interior! Yikes! That would be simply TOP!

But, aside from the many subjects we each know of and want done that are languishing without interior representation... We all got to admit that there is actually a huge and growing list of subjects available WITH full interiors! Tanks both big and little, old and new, Allied, Axis, pre-war, post-war, cars and trucks, missile-platforms and transporters, self-propelled guns, armored cars, carriers, recovery vehicles... the list goes on. And I'm not including the large number of half-tracks and open-top AFV kits among these, even though many of those have complete interiors, too!

I doubt anyone alive and modeling today could actually build all of those "with interior" kits within whatever life-time they have remaining. I KNOW I don't have even a snowball's chance in a roaring blast-furnace of building my stash, let alone most or even any large percentage of the available kits with full interiors... And those dang model companies keep coming out with more. And I can't successfully resist every urge to buy one now and again!

What's kinda sad to me is that, for all those which are already out and available, so few have yet appeared in model shows and contests. Probably has something to do with the TIME it takes most folks to build them...

PS: It's not WWII Allied... but I did just order that extremely new (out in March, 2019) Tiger Models French AML-90 Light Armored Car (with full interior, including a truly spectacular-looking little motor!) IPMS Nats in August 2019!

Bob
nsjohn
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: July 26, 2018
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 01:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I was going through the Mosonmagyaróvár 2019 gallery, as I do each year, in absolute amazement at the entries, and noted the lack of World War Two German entries. Counting them, there are approximately 57 Axis entries for 176 other (modern, both world wars, and anything in between). I say appropriately, but I’m fairly sure i didn’t miss-count a Churchill for a Tiger, or count a Panther twice. I started this a few years ago after one poster here bemoaned “yet another Tiger kit”, and it is a trend, the decline of Axis modelling subjects at contests. Modern and WW1 subjects have increased most, anecdotally, as has Allied, just not to the same extent. Interesting for the hobby, but this is neither scientific nor conclusive.

Kylie



Perhaps the European modelers are onto something- After all, how many "Tri-Color Camo" Panthers and Tigers I & II can one gaze upon year after year, after year..?

PS- Over in the "NEWS" section, HOBBY BOSS has just announced "yet another Tiger kit"...



To balance that however they have also announced a R39 Renault.
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 2,901 posts
Armorama: 2,732 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 03:23 PM UTC
Norman:

You mentioned that Hobby Boss has "also announced a Renault R-39"...

Maybe check that announcement - I don't think that Renault produced any "R-39" tank... There was, however, a couple of Renault tanks produced before 1940 besides the R-35, which HB kitted (with a modest interior)... There was the R-33, and the R-40. Maybe HB has decided to kit one of these machines?

Bob
GregCopplin
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: September 06, 2011
KitMaker: 108 posts
Armorama: 103 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 03:43 PM UTC
I will say the one thing that i personally like about modeling axis armor is that you have multiple variations of camoflauge to paint. It kind of makes for more creativity. With allied armor you don’t really see that, it’s more of olive drab and that’s it. Sorry just a little side rant. I noticed the comment on WW1 subjects, I’d like to say that this could maybe be attributed to the fact that video games such as Battlefied 1 have came out and now it’s peaked the interest of kids to model that subject. I will say It seems like video games are beginning to influence modeling, looking at all the paper panzers , i feel like this is attributed to games like war thunder and world of tanks. But with these games you also get to play as the unknown allied tanks and even a random Chinese tank or two as well. I think if anything there doesn’t seem to be a lot of allied armor built. Like i stated above there’s all these camo patterns but something else to note is the most popular tank to build for the allies is a Sherman. Now there’s multiple variations of the Sherman which anyone who studies and models the subject would have more then that. But the axis had everything from the panzer I to the King Tiger. I know there were other allied tanks such as Cromwell and Churchill but i just don’t see those subjects peeking the interest of allied model builders but i could be wrong. I think another thing that the axis builders got going for them is armored trains. Like come on growing up i loved tanks and trains and now i can combine that into a military train. There never really were any allied armored trains, there were Russian and polish ones but that’s another subject.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 5,001 posts
Armorama: 4,223 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 05:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Norman:

You mentioned that Hobby Boss has "also announced a Renault R-39"...

Maybe check that announcement - I don't think that Renault produced any "R-39" tank... There was, however, a couple of Renault tanks produced before 1940 besides the R-35, which HB kitted (with a modest interior)... There was the R-33, and the R-40. Maybe HB has decided to kit one of these machines?

Bob



"It was intended to fit the R 40 with the welded FCM turret in the second half of 1940, while refitting all existing R 35s with the longer SA 38 gun and bringing R 40 production levels up to 120 per month for the duration of the war. From January 1940, the vehicles of light tank unit commanders were gradually uparmed with the longer gun; but as absolute priority was given to tanks serving in armoured divisions, which were of the Hotchkiss type, of the 273 platoon, company and battalion commanders eligible in Renault units, only a few if any received this "R 39". "

and

"Postwar France
Some R 35s served after the war in the Gendarmerie, as "R 39s" refitted with SA 38 guns. They were phased out from 1951 in favour of the Sherman tank."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_R35

/ Robin
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 2,901 posts
Armorama: 2,732 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 06:25 PM UTC
Robin: I read all that same stuff on the Wikipedia, too.

So, as pretty clear from what they said, the "R-39" label could be applied to either a pre-WWII Renault R-40 tank (itself a whole new subject way beyond the extant HB R-35 kit) modified with the addition of the welded FCM turret (which would bring the start of yet another entirely new subject - a possible future FCM tank kit! - with a different whole new new-tool hull, road gear, and interior...)...

Or... it could be applied to a Renault R-35 tank fitted with the long-barreled SA-38 gun - same as used on the Hotchkiss H-39 (and kitted by Bronco) (and using the same standardized cast turret!). Which would be a very tiny change from the extant HB R-35 kit - as the turret and the rest of the tank are the same R-35 stuff we already have, and what one would get would be the longer gun and its different mantlet.

Sounds like neither "R-39" was actually formally designated as such for production or for TO&E use. And both mods to the standard R-35 actually happened concurrently in 1940, with the long-barrel version being continued in use post-war.

IIRC, the Bronco H-39 kit(s) offers the option of using either the shorter gun or the longer gun.

So, which "R-39" is HB announcing? The R-40 with an FCM turret (SUPER COOL - I'll rush and get one if that's the case! ), or their old HB R-35 kit with an added longer gun barrel (BLAH )?

I'll bet that the putative "R-39" will be the latter. It would be a "new" subject, in a technical sense (and could offer modelers some decal options for an early French post-war AFV), but not much of a new kit for anyone to rush out and get excited about. Ho-hum.

Of course, not having seen this HB announcement, it does remain possible that HB could actually do some upgrading and improvement on that old R-35 kit along with adding a new gun barrel - and improvements, specially in its interior stuff, would be welcome!

Cheers! Bob