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Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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REVIEW
Fw 200 C-5/C-8 CONDOR
TedMamere
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Moselle, France
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Posted: Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 07:30 PM UTC


Here''s a review by Fred Rick Boucher (JPTRR) of what prime Minister Winston Churchill called the Scourge of the Atlantic. This new mold 1/72 scale Fw 200 Condor kit is produced by Revell Germany.

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
JPTRR
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RAILROAD MODELING
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Posted: Monday, February 05, 2007 - 01:33 AM UTC
Hello Condor Connoisseurs,

I hope I am getting better with photographs. Unfortunately, the fuselage interior shot is washed-out. The fuselage interior of the cockpit and mid-fuselage have ribs and stringers molded in.

The reason I gave the model only 60% is the bizarre molding of 'waves' on the outer wing sections. Before I researched that the Condor did not have fabric wing panels (a 'la F4U Corsair), I rated it at 80%. Ordinarily I do not think I can go higher without actually gluing plastic together. But those wing panels are too much to overlook, no different than mistakenly molding in-line engines for a radial powered plane.
SGTJKJ
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Posted: Monday, February 05, 2007 - 02:34 AM UTC
Nice review. Very helpful as I have fingered around with this kit several times in my LHS.
However, I would have liked pictures of the different camouflage/marking options in the kit. This is an aspect that can often be the deciding factor for me.

Thanks for sharing
JPTRR
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Posted: Monday, February 05, 2007 - 02:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

However, I would have liked pictures of the different camouflage/marking options ...



Hi SGTJKJ,

My model has decals for 4 versions. The painting guide shows 3 in the same splinter camo. One one is shown with the squiggles as per the box art. All the illustrations are in black and white.
Merlin
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AEROSCALE
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Posted: Monday, February 05, 2007 - 03:23 AM UTC
Hi all

Straying a bit off topic...

So, both Trumpeter's 1/48 scale kit and now the smaller Revell Kondor have both got a bit of a mauling at the hands of reviewers... which rather begs the question - is there a decent OOB Fw 200 out there? Steffen has previously noted correction sets for the seriously flawed Trumpeter model, but has anyone here tackled the Koster 1/48 vacuform and how does that stack up? I passed on it when it was released because of the perennial problem of space - but it'd be fun to know if it still the best option for anyone prepared for a vacu-challenge

All the best

Rowan
alpha_tango
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Posted: Monday, February 05, 2007 - 03:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Before I researched that the Condor did not have fabric wing panels



Sure you researched that right?

I am not debating the overdone panels, but they were fabric covered on the real a/c!!!

see e.g Nowarra Focke-Wulf FW 200 Condor (German Edition, Motorbuch Verlag) page116 (burnt a/c) or page 60 (in flight).

best wishes

Steffen

P.S. @ Rowan: this kit is waaaaay better than the dreaded Trumpeter ... but 72 is just not my scale, so I won't debate if the Revell kit is good or bad
SGTJKJ
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Posted: Monday, February 05, 2007 - 09:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I am not debating the overdone panels, but they were fabric covered on the real a/c!!!

see e.g Nowarra Focke-Wulf FW 200 Condor (German Edition, Motorbuch Verlag) page116 (burnt a/c) or page 60 (in flight).

best wishes

Steffen



This means that the kit is correct, but "only" with overdone fabric covering on the wings?
alpha_tango
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Posted: Monday, February 05, 2007 - 09:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This means that the kit is correct, but "only" with overdone fabric covering on the wings?



I cannot comment if the kit is correct (I have heard so though) but the "fabric" (looks more like corrugated iron) is at the right places.

best wishes

Steffen
JPTRR
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 01:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Sure you researched that right? I am not debating the overdone panels, but they were fabric covered on the real a/c!!! see e.g Nowarra Focke-Wulf FW 200 Condor (German Edition, Motorbuch Verlag) page116 (burnt a/c) or page 60 (in flight).



I read in various books that the Condor is "all-metal". No mention about fabric panels. I don't have the book you mention but if it is a burnt-out a/c, airplanes can partially burn so that the structure is not melted or destroyed but the aluminum skinning is gone, giving the appearance of removed fabric. If anyone can produce fact that Condor had fabric panels, I am more than happy to re-rate her at 80%, with my apologies for my ignorance.
Removed by original poster on 02/07/07 - 04:26:39 (GMT).
alpha_tango
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 02:26 AM UTC
Hi Fred

I do not care how you rate the kit, because that is totally up to you and as I wrote in the P-51 thread a matter of personal taste. But you wanted me to prove you wrong .. which made me a lot of trouble with my scanner :

Picture 1 in flight .. you can clearly see the panels on both wings but better on the right one (arrows)



Still do not believe me .. beat this: :-) :-) :-) :-)



and do not tell me only that "aluminium" that was over the fabric covered areas burnt away

cheers

Steffen

P.S. save the photos I will delete them tomorrow
JPTRR
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 03:45 AM UTC
Hi Steffen,

Oh my my my! That second photo is quite conclusive that the Condor was built with fabric covered outer panels! I also found the following photos of the wing structure of the Norway Wreck showing the bare frame aft of the spar.

Also, IPMS of the Philippines addresses this: Trumpeter Condor Review

Seems I need to revise my review! Curious how none of the references I have found of the aircraft's structure mention this.

While we are at it, here are some sites with good interior shots of FW 200s:

Interiors
http://www.fluggeraet.de/fw200_1.html

http://www.fluggeraet.de/fw200_1.html

http://www.trefall.net/kvitanosi/index_en.htm



alpha_tango
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 03:53 AM UTC
???

could you please link to the pictures that prove your view?

It is as if you were pointing to google as reference ...

cheers

Steffen
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 08:21 AM UTC
Hi Fred and all,

I too was under the impression that the Fw 200 was an all-metal aircraft. The pictures you present do seem to bear this out. Reading the ongoing debate got me thinking, so I dug out my copy of "Warplanes Of The Luftwaffe" and did some reading. Regarding the Fw 200 Condor, on page 85:

"The wing was built as a horizontal centre-section including the engines, with dihedralled and tapered outer panels. Structure was stress-skinned throughout, with flush rivetting, except for the fabric-covered wing aft of the rear spar and fabric-covered control surfaces."

Unfortunately this book does not have any pictures showing the surface of the wings, just side views of the aircraft.
TedMamere
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 11:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

could you please link to the pictures that prove your view?



Hi Steffen!

Try this link: wreck

Jean-Luc
SGTJKJ
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 12:32 PM UTC
Wow!! This tread is really turning into a tressure trove of information on the FW 200.

Great pictures and good links.

Thanks for sharing all your information on the subject.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 01:05 PM UTC
Hi gang

@ Jean-Luc: that also only gets me on the starting page of the wreck site (I am aware of the concept of "copy and paste" :-) :-) ), it is surely useful for general reseach, but for my discussion with Fred it is not really, because it is too less specific

@ Jesper:
Quoted Text

Wow!! This tread is really turning into a tressure trove of information on the FW 200.


Not for me, somehow I have the feeling we got into a deadlock ...

1. I cannot find pictures that convince Fred that I am right ----- after scanning, that is .. because in the book they look ok.

2. Fred does insist on his position

Stretched fabric never looks like the model companies make us believe, the difference to metal planking is marginal, but can clearly be seen in 1/1 because of the different structure of the fabric and because you can see where it is glued to the framing .. so it is very hard to find pix that clearly show that, I thought my examples did...

I know I am right, but I cannot convince him.... so I better drop out here

best wishes to all

Steffen
SGTJKJ
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Posted: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 - 03:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi gang
@ Jesper:
Quoted Text

Wow!! This tread is really turning into a tressure trove of information on the FW 200.


Not for me, somehow I have the feeling we got into a deadlock ...

Stretched fabric never looks like the model companies make us believe, the difference to metal planking is marginal, but can clearly be seen in 1/1 because of the different structure of the fabric and because you can see where it is glued to the framing .. so it is very hard to find pix that clearly show that, I thought my examples did...

best wishes to all

Steffen


The discussion here is good enough to me. It proves that the model might have some overdone details, but are fundamentally correct. That is fine with me and good enough for me to build this beautiful aircraft. It does not have to be a work of art. It normally never is, when I am done with it :-) :-)
JPTRR
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RAILROAD MODELING
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Posted: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 01:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

2. Fred does insist on his position

Stretched fabric never looks like the model companies make us believe, the difference to metal planking is marginal, but can clearly be seen in 1/1 because of the different structure of the fabric and because you can see where it is glued to the framing .. so it is very hard to find pix that clearly show that, I thought my examples did...

I know I am right, but I cannot convince him....



Steffen, Steffen, Steffen! Hit the reset button mine Freund! You did convince me yesterday evening. I rewrote my post with
Quoted Text

Hi Steffen,

Oh my my my! That second photo is quite conclusive that the Condor was built with fabric covered outer panels! I also found the following photos of the wing structure of the Norway Wreck showing the bare frame aft of the spar.

Also, IPMS of the Philippines addresses this: Trumpeter Condor Review

Seems I need to revise my review! Curious how none of the references I have found of the aircraft's structure mention this.



I just sent Jean-Luc the revised text and a re-rating of 80%. You did well and I appreciate your correcting me.
TedMamere
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Posted: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 01:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I just sent Jean-Luc the revised text and a re-rating of 80%. You did well and I appreciate your correcting me.



Hi Fred!

I've re-re-re-edited the review! :-)

Jetzt ist alles wieder gut...

Jean-Luc
alpha_tango
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Posted: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 01:28 AM UTC
Hi Fred

well, first your post only had the links (see my reaction above) ... so I thought you tried to prove you are right ....

Well, now it all came to a good end .. as I like it

cheers

Steffen